EPA on Volt: 93 MPGe electric, 37 mpg gas-only, 60mpg combined

I just don't like how they market the Volt. The car is not that great anyway. If Toyota or Honda make such car and market it the same way, I'll be bashing it as well.

Volt is a good plugin hybrid - great electric miles and ok gas mileage. I wish they market it as is.

 

Think of it as a grading system, something like this...

A = no mpg penalty, cleaner emissions, and a profitable price within reach of middle-market.

B = no mpg penalty, cleaner emissions, and a profitable price but a little expensive for middle-market.

C = mpg & emission-rating like a traditional vehicle, and a profitable price within reach of middle-market.

D = mpg & emission-rating like a traditional vehicle, and priced well above middle-market.

F = same as D, but only available in low-volume and select areas

To quantify, compare to the PHV model Prius. The design targets are 50 MPG, an emission-rating of AT-PZEV, and a price close to $30,000. The first two have already been delivered. The third depends upon lithium battery production and package configuration. In other words, the grade will be at least B.

What are the goals of Volt and how well do they actually match the needs of middle-market?
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EPA sticker said 12.9 kWh for 35 miles, including charger loss.

I think we are saying the same thing. EPA used 33.7 kWh for a gallon of gasoline to derive 93 MPGe as the Volt consumes 36 kWh/100mi. Name one power plant that can get that much electricity from a gallon of gas. As previously state, the best power plant can only get 50-60% of it.

 

Their goal was an A but what came out is a F. I only see Gen2 Volt getting a D. It will take a few more generations before getting to the C or B.

 

I see it differently. People looking for the Volt are looking to have only a single car (otherwise Leaf and old gasser would do). How can a single car household be ok with 4 seater and 10.6 cu.ft. trunk space?

The most popular Sedans are Corolla/Civic for the compact and Camry/Accord for the mid-size. They have bigger trunk and seat 5. That's how I see it and of course, I could be wrong.

 

The volt is 93 MPGE not 60.

 

Power plants don't burn gasoline, they burn oil (or natural gas quite efficiently) . Of course you know that.

So that argument is pointless unless you start taking the Prius 50mpg and dividing it by the amount of energy used to turn that oil into gas.

--------------------- From website: Gasoline and Oil

How much electricity does it take to make a gallon of gasoline? We don't know - but here's one stab at it. Ballpark figures only, and NOT a supportable conclusion. The most important message to take away is that it is not trivial! This part of gasoline is ignored by the folks who are concerned about the big impact on our electrical grid if we were to suddenly shift all transportation from gasoline to electricity.​

To extract one gallon of gasoline (or equivalent distillate): 9.66 kWh
To refine that gallon: 2.73 kWh additional energy.
Total: 12.39 kWh per gallon.​

Roughly one-third of the energy content of a gallon of gasoline produced from California wells is input from natural gas. Less than 2/3's is net energy (probably a lot less!).​

So I can get 24 miles in my ICE on a gallon of gasoline, or I can get 41 miles (at 300wh/mile) in my RAV4EV just using the energy to refine that gallon. Alternatively - energy use (electricity and natural gas) state wide goes DOWN if a mile in a RAV4EV is substituted for a mile in an ICE!​

Assumptions (sorry, lots of apples and oranges comparisons here):​

Data from these sources:
petro industry numbers Word HTML
State Petroleum Profile​

1. No adjustment for using data from different calendar years to make comparisons.
2. Energy content of natural gas and electricity assumed equivalent and just added. No adjustment for energy lost in burning natural gas to produce electricity (or vice versa).
3. 1 therm = 29.3 kWh.
4. 70% distillation efficiency (1 barrel = 38.5 gallons of refined product).
5. Data for California wells and refineries only.
6. Does not include energy costs of transportation, storage, and distribution.
7. All refined products assumed to be equal in energy cost of refining.
(Definitely not true if low grade crude used to produce gasoline.)​

 

Check the label again. For the combined number, it is 60 MPGe.

 

I have been interested for a while in the ground-to-plant energy costs and GHG emissions of different fuels. It is indeed information hard to come by. If I remember correctly, I found one source that looked well referenced that I sent on to Bob Wilson. The ballpark conclusion was that coal to home was worse than ground to tank for petrol.

I remember these tidbits:
Coal plants waste about 7% of their production;
plant to home costs about 7%
Charging home to battery is about a 15% loss
Average coal plant TD efficiency is about 32%

So ignoring ground to plant energy costs, plant to battery is
0.32*.85*0.93*0.93 = 23.5% of coal energy converted to mechanical.

Addendum: here is the link:
http://www.pluginamerica.org/images/EmissionsSummary.pdf
It is a compendium of studies and err... editorials. Ignore the executive summary and dig into the studies themselves. Unfortunately most of them have this apples to oranges thing going where they compare small efficient *EV to current US fleet. The pearls are in the methods, not the conclusions.

 

Now that is some spin! Lets see... The label says 93 mpge in BIG BOLD LETTERS. You are pulling from the tiny bottom where it says 60 mpge and rates the Volt as the BEST IN THAT RATING.

 

Agreed. Coal sucks.

 

I wonder what the Volt's range is cruising freeway at 65 MPH.

Like other's said, may be best to lease Volt.

 

93 MPGe is if you ran it on electricity. 37 MPG is if you ran it with gasoline. 60 MPGe is if you use both. EPA probably use typical usage to come up with that number.

 

plus...

230 MPG composite - Nope, 60 MPG composite
Chevrolet Volt's official fuel economy: 230 mpg - Aug. 11, 2009

Ken@Japan

 

Not really because the other big, bold letters are the 37 MPG rating .... ouch

 

I showed the EPA label to my wife, who makes a point of staying far, far away from discussions like this one.

She grasped the 93 MPG(e) in CD mode, and 37 MPG in CS mode right away. Then I asked her if she would expect to pay about 50% the refueling cost per mile of a Prius, if she drove a Volt only on electricity (93/50). She thought about it a moment, and said "yes."

And therein lies the weakness of this label. Not only does it make a mash of actual energy/distance used in CD mode, for similar reasons it obscures the fact that upstream processing of electricity in the central power plant has to be paid for by the consumer straight out of pocket.

 

I strongly disagree. EPA has done an excellent job on the label, far better than anyone's expectations. For those who are concerned about the fuel cost, it's explicitly stated how much it costs to drive in electric, gas, or mixed mode. For those who want to have a comparison touchstone to the efficiency of the gasoline engines, there is the MPGE figure. It will be a great label for the future plug-in Prius.

I see a few cynics at this thread, but the fact is that if they could only plug in their Priuses, they would not only do so but they would drool while doing it.

 

I'm not sure what you're asking and haven't had a chance to read the rest of this thread but http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...uth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.html is where you can learn about the EPA test. There are >2 drives.

Are you asking why the Volt doesn't get the same mileage as a Prius or are you asking about test methodology?

 

Why EPA has shown hwy and city value separate on the Leaf MPGe and not in the Volt?
For me, lacks information. Not complete.

Also I don't agree with the cynism at this thread, because the result of this so-eco-announced project is fairly regular, not to say deceiveing.
Even if many of us would like to plug in their Prius, it would be an easy process to do so, since it is avaliable for purchase a solution long time ago. Instead, GM users would drool for a CS mode with a MPG like a Prius, but from my knowledge there is no avaliable aftermarket to reduce fuel consumption!

 

They did.

But since those values are less informative and misleading, only combined is displayed in large print. Look on the lower-right corner for the others.
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