Hybrid Sales Don't Hold Up Under Own Weight

If government employees & politicians had to drive & pay for their own cars then maybe we'd see different choices.

Let me know when you find a car made 100% of American parts.

Imagine the recovery we'd have & the job growth if the Federal & state governments could only buy products with 100% USA content.

 

Speaking of gas, didn't I later see reports that over half the 'oil' from the BP spill was found to be gas? It just happens to be liquid under those deep high-pressure conditions, erupting as gas when pressure is reduced, as it did coming up the pipe during the initial blowout.

It seems this may partially explain some of the findings that most of the spilled oil 'disappeared'. Much of it was never the heavy oil they were searching for, but instead was lighter stuff that could quickly dissipate in the atmosphere, or dissolve into the water and feed the hydrocarbon-loving bacteria that is more abundant in the Gulf than in most other waters.

 

Heh.... and the Ford Fusion Hybrid is made in Mexico.

Over here, Land Cruisers don't make up a large % of the monstrosity class (curb weight of 5000+ lbs.) SUVs. It's mostly Expeditions, Tahoes, Yukons, Suburbans, Navigators along w/a smattering of Ice Capades err.. Escapades, Hummer H2s (aka 6400+ lb. battering rams of death) and Excretions... err.. Excursions (aka Ford Valdez that are typically 6700 - 7000+ lbs.). The Excretions engine choices include a base 5.4L V8, 6.8L V10, 6.0L V8 diesel or even a 7.3L V8 diesel.

Dodge Durunagos don't look that big or heavy but they're crappy on mileage too (per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm, 4WD 09 Durangos are rated 13/19, 15 combined or 13/18, 15 combined depending on whether you choose a 4.7L or 5.7L V8). Of course, most of the above are driven solo or w/minimal cargo and passengers and almost never towing anything.

Yep... people bellyache and panic here when gas hits $4/gallon, yet even during those times (at least in California), you still see too many of the above monstrosities running around. When gas gets "cheap" ($3/gal or less), you can't help but notice the monstrosities again along w/current gen models of them instead of older ones. Sigh...

It's crazy that per http://www.epa.gov/oms/cert/mpg/fetrends/420s10002.pdf, the avg. curb weight for light duty vehicles sold in the US was 4009 lbs. That's the a bit below the start of medium-sized SUV curb weight. Current mid-sized family cars typically weigh in the low to mid 3000 lbs. range. Most econoboxes are in the low to high 2000s, although the Cruze per 2011 Chevy Cruze Specs and Features | Chevrolet is a pretty porky for an compact (per the EPA) econobox 3102 lbs. (at least for the trims they listed)

 

using natural gas as a primary source to fuel cars has been discussed forever, but natural gas is also the prime candidate to heat homes in many parts of the country, and the actual supply has always been up for debate as well.

our biggest problem is not what we replace oil with, its how much we are paying for the oil we use now. increase the price and other options will start popping up all over the place. that would include solar, gas, pneumatic, what have you. a single solution like oil is not out there and probably will never be.

our 2nd biggest problem is that we still waste a lot of natural gas because its not all that easy to handle. so unless we know we can get zillions and zillons of cubic feet of it from a relatively localized source, we dont even try. we just burn it off.

our 3rd biggest problem is the same as #2; natural gas is harder to handle, especially over long distances so bringing it in from Alaska will be a monumental job especially when it comes to paying to get it here. so having a humongous supply so far away from the user demand is almost as bad as having very small supplies.

natural gas is a great solution, but it must be relatively abundant in an area and it must have a demand for the gas that is relatively local.

as far as the supply of natural gas; sure its big enough, but that is like saying the Earth has enough air for you to survive underwater for a year. try making that fact work 80 feet under when your tank says you have 3 minutes left

 

Other problems about natural gas to fuel vehicles is that there are SO FEW vehicle choices available to consumers, at least from mainstream automakers. The Honda Civic GX is the only one I can think of, off the top of my head.

Then after reading some posts which I posted at http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...atural-gas-vehicles-were-so-slow-fill-up.html, I thought....hmm, maybe Pickens' plan isn't such a good idea... It seems doubtful the many US consumers would be willing to put up w/the above, lack of fueling stations and/or pay for a home fueling station (and from who now?).

You know... the American public doesn't want to pay extra for anything and thinks that low rolling resistance tires will deliver an 8 mpg improvement.

 

That would be consistent with the continual decrease in estimated US oil reserves while natural gas reserves increase.

 

Do we have an idea what fraction of our carbon emission is from flaring and wasting this gas?

Wasting the lower-carbon fossil fuel so that we can pump more higher-carbon fossil fuel out of the ground seems like an environmental crime.

 

good question, but i do know that just about 100% of all deep mines have between a little and a lot of natural gas seepage. they usually vent it off.

it seems to me that i did attempt to research the issue and all i could find is that they used to flare off ALL of it. it only in the past 40-50 years that they began using it as a source of energy other than to run refineries.

now some oil companies (if they have the money) will capture the gas and pump it back into the hole. not sure how this works. i do have a cousin of sorts (related to me in one way or another, just not sure of the lineage) who works the fields in Texas. he talked about the process and this was like 10 years ago. he talked about one time where they had pumped back like 400 billion feet or so in the hole. had a contractor come out that was going to transport it. well they somehow lost about 75% of it. that caused a bit of a stir.

 

OP article has no bearing on the Prius.

Prius consistently sells in top 20 in US. I've seen it listed #16, #13, etc...

Prius is a fully mainstream car.

The term 'hybrid premium' doesn't even apply to the Prius IMO, as a base model Matrix, which is ~ $4k less has fewer features than Prius and isn't nearly as nice of a car.

 

Merging the terms peak & oil are not a solo issue. Peak Natural gas is just as real. Consider North slope oil promises back in the 1970's ... after the Arab oil embargo, the 'experts' estimated the U.S. would be waste deep in Alaska oil for the next 80 years. But now?:
Review April 5, 2010 :: ASPO-USA: Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas

IOW, we got ONE measly decade before Alaska peaked. The mega fields on the scale found in Saudi Arabia are a by gone era. Yet the mega field promises continue. One of the petrolium expert persons here on PC explained how estimates work (rough translation) by saying the estimates are at best, vague & in flux. The estimator will claim there's a 50% probability of 5 decades before reserves peak, a 15% probability of 7 decades before peak, and so on. From such variables, a guess is pulled out of their butt ... and go figure ... it's the rosiest estimate. Investors don't lay out vast sums for a low volume (ROI) guess ... so go figure, the estimates sound great. Same with NG ... and the north slope NG reserves will evaporate, just like EVERY oil estimate has done, bar none ... whether it's Alaska, South america, etc.

As for NG, the U.S. gets HUGE amounts from Canada.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/canada/NaturalGas.html
The U.S. uses more of Canada's NG than Canada does. We get most of it. As Canadians use more and more NG, how long do you think it'll be untill Canada decides they want to keep some of their reserves for their OWN future? Rosy forecasts not only make investors more available, it makes us feel good. Too large a dose of reality makes us uncomfortable ... and at that point, we'd rather turn on re-runs of "The Office", rather than prepare for the future.
Bottom line - no silver bullets. NG is great, and ultimately it's simply going to be another one of many fuels used, just to keep us running until we (hopefully) find something else, or something better.

If they do that, the next thing you'll want is to move all the EV threads out of hybrid news, and there'll be no rest for the mods ... they'll collapse . . . . and it'll be total anarchy !!

.

 

Want to see this waste in action? Look up Google Earth and select Gallery, Nasa and then Earth City lights and then check out the North Sea (between the UK and Norway/Denmark).

All those blobs glowing in the sea are the oil platforms flaring off the gas!

 

IMO, there is no better small-mid 4 door hatchback in the US today than the 3rd generation Prius.

and btw, stopped in at Piercey Toyota yesterday. There were 3 new Prius' lined up along the curb. 2 were V's just being driven away after sale.

Prius more than holds its own in sales. It would be a great car even if it were only ICE powered, it is that good. There is nothing out there that matches the comfort and utility of the Prius in a smaller car.


Golf / GTI space and utility no match for Prius

Volvo's much more expensive than Prius

Jetta Sportwagen could arguably be the best challenge to the Prius
Matrix and Rav4 have compact class front seats, Prius above compact class seats

Subaru Impreza has less interior room than Prius

Scion xB possible contender to Prius at low cost. I don't like its high H-point seating.

Nissan Versa - does not even have fold flat cargo area. Fail

Cube / Juke - don't know them

Mazda3 five door pffffft - can you say compact, cramped seating? yes.

Hyundai Elantra Touring - who buys these things?

Honda - the big fail in competing with Prius - Insight, fail, Fit - not even close.

Chevy HHR - not worth trying

Ford Focus hatch coming next year - sure to be cozy inside compared to Prius.

 

This Stanford professor's book might be a good read for you folks regarding how much oil is left and at what price. Link to discussion about it -

Oil: How much is there, how much more will we use and at what price? | School of Earth Sciences

 

Do you realize we import around 15% of our natural gas, and that is with domestic production running basically flat-out?