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Prius GPS Street Numbering

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by membluess, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. membluess

    membluess New Member

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    Purchessed a 2010 Prius with Nav. What a mistake the nav was. The street numbering isnt a little off, its a lot off. I have traveled from my home in Fl to as far as upper MI as well as upper NY. The more rural the worse the problem seems. That is when I would need it the most of course. Found myself almost 1/4 of a mile past my set address when it told me I had arrived. I had arrived at an empty field. Thank goodness i had cell reception, a lot of rural places dont.
    It shows my home address in a canal about 800 ft away from my driveway. The address it shows me at doesnt even exist except in the tela atlas database. It seems to show the position of where you are located on the road fine. Turns are where they are supposed to be. Dont try to rely on this system at night when you cant read the addresses. Trust me, you might be close, but you either went too far or are a little short. From what i have been reading, this has been a known problem to Toyota for some time. Called them and they gave me a case # when i got the car, called them again today and they gave me another case number and refered me to my dealer. My dealer might not be the greatest, but he didnt program the disk. My 150$ Magellan that is a few yrs old gets me there to the doorstep no problem. My 2500$ built in gets me to where it seems to think i might like to be. I would expect Toyota to step up and get their map vendor to fix their product. They havnt. Maybe they need to get a new vendor and help the folks who paid the big bucks to get to where we need to go. The POI's rely on address as well. Really hard to find some hotels on the road when it tells you "you have arrived" and there is nothing there.
     
  2. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    It might not be the map vendor's problem. Toyota already uses Navteq, who are also used by the majority of Nav vendors.

    The problem comes from interpolating street addresses. Street intersections work because they have a physical address in the database. Street numbers, however, don't. Street numbers work from anchor numbers at significant points, such as street ends or intersections. Numbers between the anchor numbers are interpolated by the nav system software. How well this is done depends on the system, and it appears the Toyota system is not that good at it.

    Tom
     
  3. membluess

    membluess New Member

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    Tom, thanks for the reply, As for the vendor toyota uses, the only other company that uses them are tom tom, moi, and perhaps one other. I agree it may be a Toyota problem. Anything is possible, but it has been going on for a long time without any fix by anyone. I spent way too much for this option not to have it work properly. I have never been down a road that the numbers were accurate on. As for them using Navteq, it isnt the vendor name that is on my dvd. Mine says tele atlas. As i stated before not many of the major players use them. However, if there is a different vendor that Toyota can switch disks to that will work in my 2010, I will be the first to ask for it. i had a tom tom for about 3 days a few yrs back that had a street numbering problem as well. Same vendor tele atlas. Took it back got a Magellan, never had a problem with it. Wish i had done a bit more reading on the Toyota built in before purchasing this option. Certainly wouldnt of spent the money.
    Thanks for the quick responce.
    Bob
     
  4. firepa63

    firepa63 Former Prius Owner

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    Don't ya just miss the folding maps that you could get for free at any gas station?
     
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  5. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Denso (Toyota) used Navteq for the Gen II Nav system, which I have. It's entirely possible that they may have switched mapping data for the Gen III. The Gen III Nav system seems to be a step backward, so it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

    Do any other Gen III Nav owners have any information about this?

    Tom
     
  6. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    My understanding is that Toyota still uses Navteq for the Gen III. It seems to me that GPS street numbering problems seem to be worse in certain parts of the country than others.

    I have used it all over NC with no problems. Some street numbering is off a little but not that much. As for rural areas, my mother lives in a very rural area and the Nav took me to her driveway the first time I tried.
     
  7. Joe166

    Joe166 New Member

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    It's pretty good in my area of South Florida. Except in parts of Coral Gables, which is understandable. I have entered my office address in the City of Miami and it takes me to the block. I can find it from there. I have done the same with my office in Fort Pierce. I found that address wasn't there, but I made up a similar address, like what might have been across the street, and it got me there.

    I am not sure what you expect from the GPS, but GIGO is still alive and well. I would not expect it to be all that accurate in the deep countryside. They probably don't have all that accurate data to use.

    There are some problems with the Nav unit in our cars, this is one of the least annoying, to me.
     
  8. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    My Garmin Nuvi also makes some street numbering errors. I just deal with it (but it only cost about $250).

    JeffD
     
  9. Paul58

    Paul58 Mileage Miser

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    Doesn't Navtec just provide the map data? Seems to me the difference manufacturers use other programs as the operating system that uses the map data. The Navtec maps may be fine, its how the OS uses that data that makes a difference. It's to bad the Toyota Nav doesn't work like a couple of the aftermarket ones installed by folks here, that can use several different GPS Software disks, i.e. load your Garmin or Magellan DVD into the Toyota Nav.

    I have never relied on the accuracy of any GPS to find a specific address, so I guess it doesn't really bother me that much. I know it will get me to the general vicinity and then I start looking for the address I need. I was also very fortunate when I purchased my Prius, seems prices had hit rock bottom, so I essentially got my Toyota Nav for free... Guess I actually got what I paid for...
     
  10. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Exactly. In addition, Navteq has several levels of data, with some being more complete than others.

    Tom
     
  11. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    It is the poor addressing system we have allowed for our houses that is the problem.

    Many numerical address originated decades if not hundreds of years ago with no formal system to assign them.

    Consider my street in a planned development from the early 1900's. The corner lot is #15 (a church built ~1970) plus 3 lots used for parking. Next lot is #29 (1920's house) then it's #33 for the next lot. This 1920's house was for the parents of #29 and included an empty lot for more yard. This yard lot was sold and became #35 in the 1940's. Then we have 3 more yard lots connected/owned by #47 also a 1920's house and so on.

    Across the street are lots of a different size and tax block. Some of these have addresses for the highway that is behind them. It really was a random picked by owner number system.

    Add all the unregulated development with their unofficial streets and it's wonder we can find anyplace at all.

    Garmin has my house 150 ft down the street, where it should be if you divide 16 lots into 100 addresses.
     
  12. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    Exactly. My home street is the same way since the lots are of different sizes but the GPS addressing scheme is based on equal lot sizes and equal spaced houses. My son's Garmin shows the same errors as my Nav.

    If the GPS can get me on the correct street and in the correct block, I should be able to find the address I am looking for.
     
  13. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Maybe we could use the house numbering system used in Tokyo, where buildings are numbered sequentially. That pretty much eliminates any expectation of ever finding a building by only its street number.

    Tom
     
  14. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    In New York City if you have enough clout you can get your building number changed so it is out of sequence. I doubt the nav maps or OS can handle this accurately.
     
  15. tzor

    tzor Junior Member

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    When we moved out of the RR (Rural Route) system to street numbers we had the Town Supervisor on our street. Right in the middle of 80's -> 90's he got 1. (He has since passed away and although the house belongs to his relatives, they changed it back to a more appropriate number.
     
  16. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Our building has had three different house numbers, and as far as I know, it has never moved. Perhaps if it were in California...

    Tom
     
  17. membluess

    membluess New Member

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    Well if Toyota is using Navteq its news to me. For some reason Tele atlas seems to have the car market sewen up. Check their web site. But I was very interested in the post that said his street numbers were acurate here in parts of Florida. I live in St. Pete. It has never been acurate in any city I have been in from Florida to Michigan, to New York and as far north on the east cost as Albany. Even further north on the east coast. If it is acurate for some of the 2010 Prius's, most likely we all have the same and the latest Nav disk ( if you have "last years" disk and its acurate, dont change it!) It sort of makes me wonder about a possible machanical issue in the Gps itself. I know I am not alone on the inacuracy issue. i have talked to several toyota prius owners while in for oil changes, etc. Not one of them have said it was acurate. Next time I am there I will be asking the owners of other 2010 toyota models if they are having the same issue. After all I am sure the data disk is one size fits all if you know what I mean.
     
  18. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    How much time have you spent reading the Nav manual and verifying that you have the GPS system configured correctly? The correct region map selected, route preferences selected, etc. This makes a big difference in how the GPS system responds.

    Also, when you travel from Florida to NY are you changing your map regions correctly? IIRC there is different map region for the northeast. Others have reported problems until they realized they were not selecting the map regions correctly.
     
  19. liskipper

    liskipper Member

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    Yes the 2010 Nav system truly sucks. I have been complaining (ranting) about it on here and to Toyota. Talking to Toyota is an exercise in futility. They make it up as they go along - and sometimes just outright lying. The latest was the excuse that the street numbering problem is for my "security" so no one could find my house!? Also, no one else's. The only advice I have is that anyone who has a problem with the address data base (that is, everyone) inundate Toyota with complaints. Maybe they will get it through their thick skulls that there really is a problem ...
     
  20. membluess

    membluess New Member

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    I know how to change areas of the country as I move from place to place as well as the fact that I did read the manual to see if there is a correction for this. There isnt. As for navtec or any of the others, If its not accurate, it really doesnt matter who put together the data. I really do know it was tela atlas and it really is way off on street numbering. Just so you know If i want an address that is out of the region, I know I need to add the area i need to look. Its a really simple process. Unless you are looking in the right region, it wont even find the right town let alone the correct street. I see the post from liskipper and i guess I am not alone. I think it would be in ALL of our best interest if we spoke up. its true Toyota doubtfully is going to listen to one of us. My car goes in for testing on the 20th of this month. I cant say on here exactly what I said to my dealer, but it comes down to I bought your product, I paid you for it, now get off your butt and make it work properly. Hay, this might not be a brake problem, you might not really care if it gets you to the proper house or not, but the bottom line is. You and I paid for it, it should get us to the exact address on any street. Ran my 4 or 5 yr old Magellan in my car for the last week. Didnt care where i was going, put in the address. Magellan, right to the door. Toyota, well at least it did get me on the right street. You may say this isnt a big deal, well maybe to you it isnt. But what about if you are in a strange town, you kid gets hurt and you are taking him for medical care. Sounds extreme i know. Magellan would get you to the hospital door where you need to be. Well with Toyota, at least you would be on the right street. Gee, $200 for the dash mounted that is accurate to a tee. $2500 for a unit that gets me on the right street. its sort of like a life preserver on a boat. Might use one for paddling around the boat for fun. Its a place to rest, if it sinks, oh well.but what if i need it for the purpose it was invented and needed to depend on it. Should i take the attitude of some of us and say, well it floated for a while, at least i know what lake i am in. Now what? I certainly believe this is a fixable problem that isnt being addressed. To be frank, it wont be, until enough of the new toyota owners complain to their dealers and say fix it. One or two of us are just pesky, bunches of us that are having the problem, well it will be addressed and fixed. What if the folks with the braking problem just said well it stops the car most of the time. The system needed to work all the time and do the job well. I do have to rely on my Navigation system or I wouldnt of spent the money on it. Personally didnt need parking assist or out of lane notification, so I didnt spend the money on it. But if I had I really would expect it to put me in the parking space without damaging the car behind or in front of me. But I guess if I hit the car behind me every time I used it, at least i could say, well at least i am in a parking space sort of. Would i look toward the manufacturer to fix the problem or just say, oh well spent all this money, at least it was close. I feel that any thing I paid for should work properly. Am I asking too much? Most stuff if it doesn't work, I take it back, it either gets fixed or I get my money back. Wonder what will happen if i ask Toyota for the cost of the option back? Will I see the dealer reaching for his checkbook? Really dont think this will happen. I still say I know there are a lot of new Prius owners with the same problem. We either all come forward and demand repair, or we just subtract the options cost to the already pitiful resale cost of the car. Maybe I am wasting my time on here and should just take this to court. All I really want is for the rest of you to either man or woman up and go to the dealers and say the simple words, fix it. Some have had some interesting excuses for why it doesnt work. None of them really hold true. Yes I realize there is going to be the odd one that the guy changes his house number to one from something in the 80's or 90's number range. There is that rare case. But when I am trying to find an address in a place that the numbers havnt changed for 100 yrs and it still is off or the fairly new place only 20 yrs old and it tries to take me thru a guard shack and into a high security area, come on. The place was only about a 1/4 mile away. It still told me I had a fair piece to go, but hay, I was on the right street, close enough right?