1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

The beginning of the future - Heat focusing solar power plant approved

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Rybold, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    If I remember correctly, I went to the site's website and found site area, homes serviced, and energy/home data.

    We can sort of cross-check the number by what we know from PV: an average good installation in the US will produce about 1.5 kwh/watt*year, and a square meter of PV holds 100 - 150 watts of capacity. So 10 square meters of PV panel installation is good for about 1500 - 2250 kwh/year. X area of panels is quite a bit more than X area of flat rooftop, and in a similar fashion these farms have the collectors spread out for access and shade avoidance.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    True, but then the panel is oriented at about 10 degrees, and yield is considerably (30%?) decreased in the winter.
     
  3. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    2,507
    235
    28
    Location:
    Chicagoland, IL, USA, Earth
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Combining this info with the 7000 acres referenced on the wikipedia page,
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blythe_Solar_Power_Project]Blythe Solar Power Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    I come up with 92 sq. meters/home (an acre is a chain by a furlong, or 66'x660', and a square foot is .09 sq. meters). Assuming 3 people in a single-family home, this is about 31 sq. meters/person. This is also assuming they're using all 7,025 acres they own for building the plant, which is probably not the case.
     
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Nerfer,
    I backtracked my earlier steps I think ..
    Starting Here ... 7000 acres supplies 750,000 homes.

    Then I asked google how many "square meters in 7000 acres" and was told
    28,327,995. Division yields 37.8 square meters/home.
     
  5. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    2,507
    235
    28
    Location:
    Chicagoland, IL, USA, Earth
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Do you mean 1.5 kw/person*year? That would match their estimate of 1000 MW for 300K homes (or 3.3kW/home and about 3 people/home), with maybe a bit extra to handle times of lower efficiency, like that 30% drop in winter you mention.
    But a typical home is 2500 sq. ft, call it two floors, and half the remaining roof is usable: 600 sq. ft available = 54 sq. meters, much more than the estimate of 30 needed for a family of 3. I might be off on some numbers, but I doubt by a factor of 2.
    Of course, the better answer is to use high efficiency refrigerator, A/C, TV, light bulbs, etc.
     
  6. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    4,539
    1,433
    9
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    That is why one would optimize the collector angle for power generation instead of just tossing it on top of a nearly flat parking shelter.:D
     
  7. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    2,507
    235
    28
    Location:
    Chicagoland, IL, USA, Earth
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Wow, that's interesting. They say 750,000 homes, but the latest press release says 300,000 homes. Or maybe homes in South Africa use 2/5 the power of U.S. homes.
     
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    A huge PV array was put up by a company in my sunny city, incorporating car parking and PV.

    10% tilt. I have seen it elsewhere, too.
     
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    No, yield is ~ 1.5kwh/watt*year. The way to read this unit is "If I put up a 1 watt rated collector and wait a year, I'll collect 1.5 kwh."

    As an aside, I find PV units expressed this way are the easiest to use in figuring out money questions and 'payback' periods.
     
  10. drees

    drees Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    1,782
    247
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Optimizing collector angle is only useful when you have space to spare because of shading. If you are looking to maximize annual output for a given area (with a fixed tilt system), you would typically mount all your panels on one plane tilted south (if in the northern hemisphere) at an angle close to your latitude.

    However, height restrictions typically prevent this for any significant array size, so you end up with multiple rows of panels which have to be spaced apart so that the southern panels do not shade the northern panels in the winter months. But doing so gives up summer time power production when the sun is higher overhead as now you will have ground/roof in between rows getting sunlight instead of panels.

    So, if you want to maximize the production of a small number of non-space limited panels, you'd put them on a 2-axis tracker spaced out far enough that they do not shade each other in the winter.

    If you want to maximize annual production for a given area, you mount the panels flat and cover all available area. Note that in real life, mounting flat isn't recommended as some tilt will help the panels clean themselves when it rains - a 10* tilt seems to be sufficient to minimize or eliminate cleaning for many locations.

    Until we have more renewable power than we know what to do with when the sun is shining, it makes sense to either maximize space efficiency and/or panel efficiency depending on the specifics of the installation.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. franzly

    franzly New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    7
    0
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Four


    Well, that’s one of the advantages of solar power. Solar power may be a more realistic energy option than running large lengths of electrical wires to connect to a grid in remote locations.
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,889
    8,187
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Heck, our panels are over 2yrs old now, and not the highest efficiency for the time ... and THEY're over 18%
    Products
    And now days? They're over 60%.
    Once THESE are attached to the back side of PV panels.
    ;)