1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Mandatory Backup Cameras by 2014?

Discussion in 'Other Cars' started by DataWrangler, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. DataWrangler

    DataWrangler Prius Owner (finally!)

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    128
    18
    1
    Location:
    West Houston, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is proposing that backup cameras be installed in all new vehicles by 2014.

    A quick search of news on "backup camera" will turn up a number of articles on this topic. This is the topic that Bob Wilson was addressing in his now famous "censored" post.
     
  2. Snake

    Snake New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    89
    5
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I think this is a fantastic idea. It might raise the cost of vehicles a bit, but I think more visibility for people backing up is great. I need two hands to count the amount of times I have been hit or been in a vehicle where the driver has hit someone backing up.

    On the terms of cost, some cheap mirror installed back up cameras can cost as little as 350, which is pocket change if you are buying a new car.

    My only concern is people avoiding looking behind them just because they have a camera (which I suppose is inevitable with a good enough camera).
     
  3. donee

    donee New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    2,956
    197
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Hi All,

    I also think this is a good idea. The generic-fication of the head-unit in cars makes this economically practical in this time period as well. In the Prius - its back-to-the-future!!!!
     
  4. Duffer

    Duffer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    271
    15
    0
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I think that a backup camera is a great idea and I use mine all of the time for a panoramic view behind. It irked me that the GenIII did not have a backup camera standard. Will the nav/top of the line stereo system also be mandatory? :rolleyes:
     
  5. macmaster05

    macmaster05 Senor Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    4,050
    727
    5
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    This is great, but 4sure it will raise the prices of cars. Let's say it costs only an extra $25 for a car manufacturer to add this feature. With ~5.2 million cars made per year, that's an extra $130 million in costs for all U.S. car manufacturers!

    It's the same reason car manufacturers don't use LED lights, but hey, if it's the law...it's the law!
     
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,767
    16,014
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Funny. In Asia, they've been using window-mounted mirrors for decades (granted, it's not as inconspicuous as a backup camera).

    I'm ok either way. I don't care if it's standard or optional. What I DO care is the fact that manufacturers will become lazy and use a backup camera to make up for the shortfall of poor rear visibility (and I don't mean the split window like the Prius. There are cars that have much poorer visibility than the Prius. Try the 1G Infiniti FX for example).

    Also, I hope, if this does get passed, that we don't breed a generation of lazy drivers that don't look out the rear window when reversing. Really, the camera just needs to be used prior to moving (to make sure nothing's immediately behind the vehicle) and when you need to fine tune the position of the car in a stall (e.g. if you're backing into a wall or if there's a car behind and you wanna see how close you are to the bumper). Someone who relies on the camera to reverse will miss anyone that's walking towards the car from the side (even if the camera has a fisheye lens)
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Snake

    Snake New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    89
    5
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I think this is more a car manufacturer issue, not to be worried about on the consumer end. It won't seem like much to us and they pretty much barely make money off the actual car anymore anyway (unless you're buying a Mercedes or something).

    Yea this is basically what I was talking about. I think until technology improves to the point where we have 180 degrees of camera behind us, the need to turn around and look should still be emphasized. A mandatory camera may give the false impression you no longer need to look.

    I actually find myself not looking behind me sometimes, but I always meticulously check all my mirrors and I find I know the space of my vehicle better than most.
     
  8. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    5,963
    1,979
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    The argument that it will increase costs for auto manufacturers doesn't hold water. Just to educate you, the consumer is the one who pays the costs, not the manufacturer. As long as -all- manufacturers have to put them in their products, there is no problem. It's actually a bonus for manufacturers, as they mark up whatever they sell, and the more what they sell costs, the more profit they make (in dollars rather than percent).

    While the number of lives potentially saved by backup cameras is rather small in the great scheme of things (car accidents specifically), many of them are the tragic accidents of children being backed over by relatives.

    I think we can all agree -that- is one area we can't spend too much money to prevent!
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. donee

    donee New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    2,956
    197
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Hi All,

    If the controls were reintegrated into the screen (like a second gen Prius) , then the costs of the mechanical controls can be saved, and the costs of a back-up camera can be very small.

    That is why I think this is a really is back-to-the-future situation. The 2nd Gen Prius interior designer got it right, but was ahead of the time as other cars were not ready to have a head-unit, and the Prius head-unit was a one-car build.

    With general application of the head-unit concept, and economic disperal of the overhead over several cars, will cost be very small.
     
  10. carz89

    carz89 I study nuclear science...

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    444
    47
    0
    Location:
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You bring up some good points, and I somewhat agree. But the implementation of the technology doesn't concern me. If it truly an improvement and results in fewer accidents of any kind, then it's worthwhile.

    Thousands of backup and blind-spot accidents occur each year in vehicles without backup cameras. Usually, it's the fault of the driver. In many of those cases, a backup camera may have helped the driver better assess his situation.

    The point should be that a driver uses the best tools and sensors available to assess his environment. Right now, that's his brain and eyeballs. I use my Prius backup camera all the time and thing it's wonderful, but I also turn my head to look out the rear window or to check my blind spots when the situation warrants, which is still quite often. That's the "brain" tool. The existing backup camera is great, but has its shortcomings.

    We submariners don't have windows or cameras while underwater, so we use the best tools and sensors we have -- extremely good sonar and inertial navigation systems, and extremely good sailors who are well-trained and disciplined.

    Bring on the technology. Let's worry about the driver's training and discipline.
     
  11. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    814
    180
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Like I mentioned in the original thread from Bob, I think it's important to have the camera AND and audible warning from proximity sensors. Even with the camera, not everyone will look at it all the time. I nice audible warning will make you look. Maybe even some pre-emptive braking as a feature evolution down the road?
    I'd also like to see MUCH better reverse illumination. Backing up on foggy/wet nights down a dark narrow unfamiliar space can be scary!

    - D
     
  12. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    2,760
    320
    3
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Why is this posted in the "Prius and Hybrid News" forum? :confused:
     
  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,767
    16,014
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Well Gentex have an auto-dimming mirror that provide backup camera input (e.g. all Canadian Prius models except the base have a backup camera and those without navigation have the backup camera shown in the left hand side of the rearview mirror). This helps reduce costs as the manufacturers don't have to design their own mirror. They can source one out like they're currently doing with the standard auto-dimming mirror.

    True but you could also say that about the RX300 which debuted around the same time as the 1st gen Prius (1998). It too had a small screen for radio and climate control. However, note that the cost increases unless, as I think you're suggesting, that screen is implemented into all vehicles. However, in the grand scheme of things, I think the mirror option might be cheaper (even though it's smaller). The other alternative (esp. for lower end Toyotas that won't have an auto-dimming mirror) is to incorporate it into a 3.5" screen such as the one found on the current generation Highlander and Sienna. That screen can also double as a clock and auxiliary/additional radio display.

    Fair enough. That's the reason why we have all the electronic aids and airbags as standard equipment (at least as of 2011).

    You mean like Ford's Cross-Traffic system? I think that's an ingenious idea. I remember seeing a video on YouTube and how Nissan was playing around with the idea of intersection/junction warning systems that alert the driver of other vehicles approaching the intersection (but this required cameras at those junctions and a car that can communicate with those cameras)

    Well said. I agree. I would say moreso discipline. I'm guilty of not doing a 360° check after I set the APGS/IPA. It's the only time I don't and I'm not sure why...

    I suppose although I hate the backup sensors. The beeps are annoying. Perhaps have a visual aid near the top of the rear window. This way, you're looking out of the rear window like you should and there's a red-yellow-green bar in your field of vision.
     
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,767
    16,014
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Would you like to have it moved to "Other Cars"?
     
  15. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    868
    123
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA --- Land of Fruits & Nuts
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    If you aren't capable of turning your head around and looking at what is beside you as well as behind you with the stereoscopic vision that you were born with, you probably should not be driving.

    Technology is no substitute for responsible and defensive driving habits.

    Keith
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    2,760
    320
    3
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    It seems to me that if we start posting threads in the "Prius and Hybrid News" forum that are not specifically Prius and hybrid news, then we will eventually get to a point where we will have to sift thought dozens of threads to find the Prius and hybrid news threads. We have separate forums (aka: organization; which exists so that people don't have to sift through hundreds of threads just to find what they are interested in) that already exist. If we just start posting everything into the Prius and Hybrid News forum, then what's the point of all the other forums?

    just thinkin that's all. i'm glad merely to be allowed to participate on this website. thanks. :)

    (so, to answer your question explicitly, yes, I would like to see it moved to the "other cars" forum):car:
     
  17. DataWrangler

    DataWrangler Prius Owner (finally!)

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    128
    18
    1
    Location:
    West Houston, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Perfectly willing to accept that it may be posted to the wrong forum ...

    A) wasn't sure where else to post it
    B) it was news
    C) many/most Priuses have backup cameras

    Suggestions for a more appropriate forum?
     
  18. DataWrangler

    DataWrangler Prius Owner (finally!)

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    128
    18
    1
    Location:
    West Houston, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Interesting that B ) converts to :cool:

    With respect to "Other cars" one of the things I like best about my Prius is the backup camera ... So it seems to me that this is a vaguely Prius-related topic. "just say'n"
     
  19. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    2,760
    320
    3
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    That is because the internet recognizes that you are a cool guy. :cool:

    (nothing against you at all - I just like to be able to click on the Prius and hybrid news forum and get all the up to date Prius and hybrid news blasted at me instead of having to sift through the entire daily news to find a news article about the Prius or other hybrids)
     
  20. DataWrangler

    DataWrangler Prius Owner (finally!)

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    128
    18
    1
    Location:
    West Houston, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    :doh:


    Point taken