1.8L starting rattle, knock, events

Honestly, I'd call them up, speak to the manager, and say you're afraid to drive it because it happened four times in one morning and the engine sounds so bad. So you're going to have it flat-bedded to their dealership and it will be left there until they perform the repair. I believe car manufacturers have some sort of dispute resolution mechanism at the regional or higher level (I think info is in the back of your owners manual or in one of the supplements); you might mention that you're going to involve those folks unless you get some action. Maybe even go ahead and give them a call.

It may be inconvenient but in the long run it'll be better for the longevity of your car.

From what I see in the description of the service that's required, it's not a time consuming process; the problem is right on top of the engine.

That's my opinion, there's clearly an issue, there's clearly a fix (although it does say on the first page that the technician must verify that the engine is making that noise, which is a bummer) and I suppose you'll need to step up your demands to have the repair performed.

Or you could let it continue to get worse, wait 'till it causes more serious and obvious damage while the engine is still in warranty, then drag the poor thing in for a top end rebuild. The powertrain warranty is six years, right? Or longer? But really, who would want to handle it like that?

 

You mean four different starts in the same morning?

It will be interesting to see if replacing the intake-camshaft VVT-i-controller gear would solve the problem. Keep us updated.

 

Yes, I'm curious too.

I hope I'm not overreacting, but it's such a bummer to get a new car and expect it to work as it's supposed to...and then it doesn't. That's a big purchase, at least for me it is, and I guess I'm old fashioned but I would want to be trusted when I report that there's a problem.

 

Yes, it's a bummer but it seems repairable. It looks like it's a hit-and-miss with the Made in USA part (13050-0T010 or 13050-0T011) for the intake VVT-i controller -- some good, others bad. This is the typical quality-control problem that has been plaguing Toyota recently, as pointed out by the Toyota CEO.

Of course, as you said, there might be another design and/or manufacture problem with the engine. Even improper oil changes might be playing a role.

 

The dealership must be in a very giving mood if it's going to replace parts without being able to reproduce it. That's the rub with all this. He could show the dealership this thread to prove that the occurrence is noted by others but I can find threads on the internet arguing all kinds of things, unfortunately.

 

Agree. Put yourself in Toyota's position (or in the position of a stockholder of Toyota). If the problem is not repeatable, and people on this thread have many different ideas about what causes it, why would they pay to change out parts when they have no confirmed cause? Neither they nor we even have a consistent picture of when it happens.

 

It happened one time with me over the last weekend. Miles ~ 4900, Car unused for 72 hours and temp around 15 degrees.

There was a huge rattling noise from under the hood. Turned the engine off and turned it back on and it never returned. Took for first servicing the same day and informed the dealership about it and they said everything looks fine and there are no issues . I guess if it does not repeat then there is no way we can get toyota to look into it.

 

skm009, you say the car was unused for 72 hours before it happened, but did you interrupt the warm-up cycle during the previous engine run ?

 

As an ex-mechanic......A few times most likely will not hurt a thing. Engines are built pretty darn durable. I;m not saying it should be swept under the rug and ignored, but I've seen people abuse engines, run wrong gas, run out of oil and torn an engine down 200K miles later and the damage is so minimal it's not worth talking about.

The old 2.2 Chrysler engines in the Omni's were almost indestructible and they were built in the 80's.

 

Thanks, Sneezy, for your perspective. I guess the good news with the Prius is that it has a nice long powertrain warranty.

But, as an amateur mechanic, it pains me to hear such a noticeable problem and do nothing about it. I guess it's just my nature, is all.

 

The oiling sytem on this engine seems to be different than the one on my genII.
1. The hydraulic lash adjusters ( noisy buckets on the genII),
2. The addition of VVT on the exhaust camshaft ,
3. A 'new' oil filtering ( a different anti-drain valve ..none with the cartridge) system,
4. Oil cooling jets on the bottom of the pistons (with an anti-drain valve ea), is there a heat exchanger for the oil?
5. Possibly a new oil pump for more capacity and faster priming in case there is embolism,
6. Fully synthetic 0-20W oil.

These are 'new' to PriusLand oiling, I hope the roller/rockers are well 'captured' by design in case the lash adjusters run on 'empty'.

GoodLuck.

 

No, I did not interrupt the previous warm-up. I came home after a drive and parked it in the garage and turned the engine on after almost 3 days.

 

It was a start and quick stop because it made that bad sound and shaking. That happened 4 times in quick succession. Larry

 

I purposely interrupted the warm up after my 2010 was cooled down for 5 hours outside in 10f temp.
I started it ,the ice kicked in I backed it up 2 feet and shut it off. 8 hours later in sub zero temps it started normal. Go figure!!!

 

I should clarify that the Prius 2ZR-FXE engine has no exhaust VVT-i. The link for the new car features I have earlier in this thread refers to the Corolla 2ZR-FE engine, which has both intake and exhaust VVT-i. The exhaust VVT-i controller in the Corolla engine is replaced with a simple sprocket in the Prius engine.

 

You are right, but why did they do that? I thought double VVT-i was supposed to be more fuel efficient?

 

The Prius engine is not a separate design but a modified Corolla engine. It would be too expensive to create a whole new engine for the Prius. Therefore, they took the Corolla engine and modified it. The same was true when they used the modified Yaris engine in the past.

One of the modifications in the Prius engine is the higher compression ratio (increased fuel efficiency). The other modification is the retarded valve timing (which turns the Otto cycle into an Atkinson cycle, resulting in increased fuel efficiency but less horsepower).

My guess is simply that the retarded valve timing in the Corolla engine precludes the use of the VVT-i controller in the exhaust because it goes beyond the mechanical adjustable-valve-timing range of the VVT-i controller. Then, they would have to create a new engine design to include an exhaust VVT-i controller for the Atkinson cycle for the Prius. Instead, they didn't bother and used the Corolla engine (with simple modifications) for the Prius. These modifications required replacing the exhaust VVT-i controller in the Corolla engine with a simple sprocket, since the amount of valve-timing retardation for the Prius would not be supported by it.

A lot of $$$ goes to the research and development and design. Toyota is one of the most conservative car companies in bringing novel design ideas. They like to stick with what they have already (such as the Corolla engine in this case). Prius is an exception for Toyota that they went out of their way to design the hybrid synergy drive, which resulted in the most fuel-efficient car in the world. I heard that it was a work of sweat and blood and the whole thing was a nightmare. But, eventually, Toyota did manage to come up with an amazing product. This is in stark contrast to the rather bland model lines of cars they produce nowadays in the line of their conservative philosophy. If only they could produce more Prius-like model lines. But then if only we could go to Mars. There needs to be motivation for it. Today the motivation is the value of the stock, not presenting the customer a good product.

 

This happened to me 8 times so far. The dealer couldn't get it to happen for him.My 10 has been good for a month now.

 

Only happened once, a couple of weeks ago. (7K miles yet..)
In cold morning (around 30~40 F), I just pushed start button, and car just started knocking and shaking. So had to shut down and restart, but it's been ok so far..

 

I'm a new 2010 Prius owner (purchased just 1 month ago/have a little over 1K miles logged) and this violent rattle, knock event just happened to me. It stopped after about maybe 10 secs (seemed like an eternity!). I shut the car down and came inside to check PriusChat posts. I'm in NH and it's about 34 degrees outside. I've only used premium gas thus far, but the car hasn't been started for 2 days. This is all very disturbing, especially because I'm due to be out of town for nearly a month, during which time the car won't be started at all. Tomorrow's my birthday and was planning to take a long drive up north... does it make any sense to take it into my local dealer (probably won't be able to replicate it) or should I be okay driving it until my first checkup? UGH... so upsetting to finally own a Prius and already be worrying about it. Makes me feel better and worse that others have experienced the same.