E10 coming to Germany - what to expect?

I believe it is EU wide though there have been political grumblings over here about the use of land to produce the ethanol instead of food, so I don't know if there is an opt out or not?

My understanding is that the Prius can use E10 as per the owners manual, though I'm sure it will affect fuel economy.

 

You and everyone else can expect to use about 5% more fuel than before. Other than that you should not notice anything.

 

The injectors and valves will be clean all the time.

Ethanol is fine as an oxygenating additive to reduce hydrocarbon pollution, but until it can be made from cellulose it makes little sense as a fuel. The energy return is too low and if made from food crops it uses too much land and water.

 

I don't know what the big fuss is about Ethanol.

Heck, it only takes 2 gallons of diesel fuel to
make one gallon of Ethanol.

Come on people lighten up.

 

In California we used to have an additive called MTBE that was used to reduce hydrocarbon emissions. The problem with MTBE is that it is a serious pollutant itself. The MTBE has been replaced with 10% Ethanol, which solves the MTBE problem and still keeps some of the hydrocarbons out of the air. Mileage is definitely lower. Overall, I suspect that total air pollution is worse because of all the energy required to produce corn ethanol. But it's happening in Iowa where they grow the corn, not in California where we burn it.

 

Its coming to Finland as well so I guess it is EU wide. In Finland people have been instructed to check whether their cars can use 95E10 gas or should they use 98E05, which will be more expensive. Most cars seem to work with E10, but some surprising new cars will not, e.g. Toyota Avensis 2,0 VVT and 2,4 VVT 2003-2008 models will not.

The Finnish site is here
Toyota - E10

 

E10 made from corn is a sad joke. It reduces the cars efficiency by nearly the same percentage, so you end up using just as much gas. So much for it reducing dependence on oil! Producing it burns more oil and creates more of the greenhouse gasses than it reduces! Every way you look at it, it benefits no one except the corporations and politicians pushing it!

 

E-10 is in France since at least a year, I've not seen any difference in the consumption of the car, maybe more when it's cold as it seems the engine produce less heat…
From time to time I put regular gas in the tank but there's no way to say the mileage was better or worse with a given type of gas…

 

Been reading some of the info on this and it appears that Euro Premium 95 RON will contain 10% ethanol whereas the (more expensive) Euro Super 98 RON unleaded will contain 5% ethanol so as to assist older or non compatible cars.

In the past there have been threads as to whether it is worthwhile using Super 98RON unleaded and whether it offers better running or economy. Well, if normal petrol is going to contain 10% ethanol which will reduce economy, wouldn't it make sense to start using 98 RON Super unleaded now?

Surely higher octain AND less ethanol will allow your car to get better fuel economy?


(Euro 95 RON Premium = US 91 Octane)
(Euro 98 RON Super = US 94 Octane)

 

Less ethanol should buy you back some fuel economy, but higher octane won't do anything unless an engine is designed to take advantage via higher compression, which results in higher thermodynamic efficiency. Since a Prius only needs 92 RON I don't think going up to 98 will help.

 

So no performance gain BUT probably a slight mpg gain?

 

That's what I would expect. Couldn't hurt anything to try both and see what works best, of course.

 

You would be hard pressed to measure a difference in fuel economy between 5% and 10% ethanol.

By energy content 10% ethanol gives about 3% worse fuel economy so the difference between 5% and 10% ethanol content would only be about 1.5% in fuel economy . You would be hard pressed to measure that difference in the real world.

People that stand to make money from ethanol and True Believers claim it doesn't hurt economy. Anecdotal evidence from individuals runs all over the map with claims of 10% worse fuel economy not being all that rare.

 

Haven't you just contradicted yourself there? A 1.5% difference is neither here nor there, even with a Prius, but a 10% difference is 5mpg which is significant.

 

I made it clearer

changed from "5% and 10%" to "5% and 10% ethanol content"

 

I probably shouldn't say anything at all about this since my knowledge is seriously lacking in this arena, but here goes.

In Illinois, every gas pump has a sticker that says "Contains up to 10% ethanol". I assume it's from corn, some of the stickers have pictures of corn on them. The amount of ethanol varies based on the time of year, so there is a "winter gas" and a "summer gas", I don't know which has more ethanol.

Stihl, a German company, recommends that users of their pro-series chainsaws NOT use gasoline with ethanol, as it reduces the life of the engine. I heard rumors of special 2-stroke oil with an additive for gas with ethanol. If anyone knows where to get some, PM me.