Another Oil Change Thread (Not Really)

You have to drain the oil to replace the filter.

 

Not true. You can change the filter without draining oil pan. You lose a little oil in the filter but can replace.

 

The 1000 mile initial change was badly needed in old engines that were not machined precisely and not needed in modern engines. It is just a myth. Don't you think there was some testing done before the change over? It could be actually harmful as studies show that too often oil changes increases wear. The ZDDP-based additives are heat activated and inactive in new oil.

The filter change only is a compromise, but I doubt you will find much particles to be alarmed. Every filter I opened (including once at 1000 miles) had negligible amounts of particles. It should be very easy to see in the new style cartridges.

 

First, reading the MULTIPLE posts on this often-discussed topic, I don't believe people's main motive is the filter--where did you get that from?

Second, this topic has been beaten to death.

 

Honda recommends oil filter change with every other oil change, fwiw. It's a little hard to quantify with their in-dash Maintenance Minder, but it typically works out, with mileage around 10000 mile or 16000 kilometer, to two oil changes per year, one with, one without oil filter change.

That said, the Honda dealerships, I believe without exception, PUSH oil filter change at every oil change. They practically have you signing disclaimers if you ask them to follow the Honda recommendation.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

 

That's the first time I've heard of a manufacturer recommending a filter change with every other oil change.

If you're going to bother to go to the time/expense of an oil change, why wouldn't you want to spring for the extra few dollars and change the filter as well?

The cynic might say that it's pretty...interesting...that these extended maintenance intervals have coincided with the free maintenance programs recently offered...

 

I think that's been Honda's policy for decades. I'd have to dig out some old shop manuals to check, but going from memory I'm pretty sure of that. You wouldn't know though, going by the dealership service departments: they are stridently opposed to this. Why? Follow the money.

Several reasons:

1. It's not recommended by the manufacturer.
2. I'm typically doing my own changes, I work cheap, parts cost.
3. A used oil filter, well...: the cartridge type, all-in-one metal encased type: is an evironmental disaster all in one package. It's a mess of steel, rubber, paper, used oil, various sealants. It's the most difficult extraction process for a recycler. Replacing the oil filter at every other oil changes is a simple maintenance "behaviour" change that cuts the number of used oil filters by half.

That said, the Prius filter with re-usable housing is a massive step in the right direction!

 

I could not agree more.

 

There is no way you cannot find a thread that goes over this over and over

I have posted my views in at least 5 threads.

 

As a new member to this forum, I appreciate reading about beaten-to-death topics, since they are new to me. I wouldn't have thought to do a search on this topic, because it wasn't something that I knew I needed to know. I appreciate the info. Thanks

 

Well here I go again with another idea just to throw into this discussion. I'm convinced we have the technology to NEVER change oil especially if using synthetics. If the filter can be flushed and reused, why should we need to change oil? LOF's are an oil company conspiracy. We have certainly proved that true with the traditional 3,000 mile changes as recommend by the quick lube joints.

Okay, I'm out of this one but,

Happy Motoring,

Tom

 

hehe, tasty, conspiracy talk. Me likes.

Proof of these studies and "ZDDP-based additives" in the break-in engine oil?

 

I'm not sure what you are asking for. ZDDP is in every oil and there is no specific "brake-in engine oil."

If you are asking for studies on decreased wear with used oil, read here:
The Effect of Oil Drain Interval on Valvetrain Friction and Wear
Raman Characterization of Anti-Wear Films Formed from Fresh and Aged Engine Oils
Valvetrain Friction and Wear Performance with Fresh and Used Low Phosphorous Engine Oils | Tribology & Lubrication Technology | Find Articles at BNET
UOA Used Oil Analysis and Oil Testing

In the view of those studies, engine wear is accelerated 1000-1500 miles after new oil is filled.

 

Sorry, I misinterpreted your first post.

Based on your above links, early oil changes are basically a pros and cons game. There is also the consideration of break-in deposits and pollutants in the early life of the engine ( believe UOA has shown evidence of these).

 

The reason this subject gets beaten to death on every car, motorcycle, and probably aircraft and boat forum out there is that it really doesn't make much of a difference.

For most Americans, the "change owner" light illuminates long before any irresponsible behavior (like changing the oil at 600 miles, or following the manufacturer recommendations) will manifest itself in fatal engine damage.
Even then, an engine that has been insulted by improper (oil) maintenance will often continue to operate for the service life of the vehicle. I've seen vehicles that smoke more than John Wayne run for 40,000 miles.

Cars usually wind up in the automotive after-life from failures in their ancillary systems that make it economically unwise to spend four figures on things like front end work, brakes, A/C, etc....

Short answer: Nobody really knows, and It doesn't really matter.

 

It may not matter much indeed and thus I'm not obsessing over changing oil every 500-1000 miles during break-in like some people do (and produce more wear in the process, even though the consequence of that is negligible).

I don't agree with the part about nobody knows as there are carrier trybologists who study those things for a living. Some of the links I posted are from scientific, peer-reviewed literature.