1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

12V battery measurements after 44 months in service. Replace or not yet?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by ystasino, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    793
    50
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    It so happened that I left my 07 prius parked for 3 days (64 hours) in freezing conditions. After reading all the '07 12V battery issues I decided to check mine here's what I found:

    At IG-ON it showed 11.5V

    Then drove it for 30 minutes. Ninety minutes later I checked with the MFD service menu and the SG and here are the results:

    At ACC: 12.1~12.2
    At IG-ON: 11.8
    At READY: 14.1~14.2

    I have never left any lights on, but I did leave my '07 parked for 32 days this summer and at times will leave it parked for 2 days. I drive it about 10,000 miles a year, in MD which is a moderate climate.

    I heard a constant inexplicable beep just once last week, though I am not sure if it was because I pressed the SKS button just before closing the driver's door.

    Shall I have it replaced? I am not comfortable with DIY, will the dealer accept a yellowtop OPTIMA battery?

    Thanks
     
  2. uart

    uart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    4,215
    1,201
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Others might disagree but I'd say the battery is probably ok. The cold temperature can account for at least a 0.2V drop in the open circuit voltage and a bigger discrepancy under load (eg Ig-on). Overall it could account for about 0.5 volts suppression of those Ig-on readings.

    To me the fact that it booted the car without any issues after three days of sitting in freezing conditions is testimony that the battery isn't all that bad.

    BTW. What exactly was the temperature when you made those measurements?
     
  3. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    3,859
    1,858
    1
    Location:
    Trumbull, CT
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius
    Model:
    LE AWD-e
    You can wait for a while to see if it shows further weakness
    You dealer will most likely balk at using a third party battery. Any decent gas station mechanic can install it for you using the instructions that come with a yellow top and the installation kit from:
    Toyota Prius 12 Volt Auxiliary Battery with install kit for 2004 - 10

    JeffD
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    30 minutes of charging time won't make much difference. You would need to keep the car READY overnight (or hook up a battery charger for that period of time) if you wish to see whether the battery can be charged more fully.

    I doubt that your service dept will agree to make modifications (new battery terminals) to your car, which are required if you wish to install an Optima or other non-standard battery.
     
  5. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    793
    50
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    On Friday I will be driving from Baltimore, MD to Charleston, SC, ~ a 9 h drive, which is as close to overnight charging as I will ever come. If I read the voltage settings, what sort of increase should I look for and at what mode, to see if the 12V battery charge has been increased to a decent level. Also should I look at it the following morning or immediately after the long drive?

    This afternoon it was 39 F, but it was the warmest day we've had in the mid-Atlantic area in a while. It hasn't been bitter like last year, but Saturday night, Sunday, Monday and today were the coldest (from 27-35).

    Thanks again!
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Check the battery voltage the next morning, in both ACC-ON and IG-ON modes. It would be nice to see the voltages increase at least 0.4V. If they remain down near 12.1 / 11.8 then I would suggest replacing the battery soon - if you desire to maximize your car's reliability.
     
  7. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    793
    50
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    So to re-cap@ IG-ON:

    Sitting in the cold (35F) for 3 days: 11.5 V
    Reading 90 minutes following a short-30 minute drive: rose to 11.8 V
    The morning after the first leg of a 584 mile trip with two engine shutdowns for gas: rose to 12.0 V
    The morning after the return leg of the same trip: steady at 12.0 V

    Think it will make the winter?
     
  8. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,808
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    No I do not. Please google " Car Battery Sulfation" There to many hits to list.

    #1--- Prius stock battery is not a great battery to begin with.

    #2----One of the worst things to do is to leave a battery for +30 days with no input. At the very least mild sulfation begins. Early battery death. See any google post concerning battery health.

    #3----Prius car battery issues pretty much made this site. I say that because the battery issue posts are endless.

    #4----You want to do all you can to avoid a dead battery car jump on this car. Its truly its achilles heel. Many many posts about major damage on a a simple car jump. Alot of people say that every single complaint is because of wrong polarity jumps. If so thats alot of AAA tow truck drivers who can't figure out the difference between red & black & hot & ground.

    #5----Constant beep. Inexplicable. No. Classic. Yes.

    #6----Its a 4 year old piece of junk battery.

    #7---And best of all your $4000 Inverter really enjoys charging your soon to be dead battery.
     
  9. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    3,326
    1,512
    38
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    It will make it long enough to order your Optima kit from elearnaid.com!

    If, after looking at the instructions, you don't feel comfortable with DIY or having a friend help, then look for a Toyota and/or hybrid specialty independent shop in your area.
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    No. I suggest you replace the 12V battery at your earliest convenience.
     
  11. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    793
    50
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    So I am having it replaced tomorrow, along with the inverter pump recall. What should the V of a brand new SKS-battery be and what's the part number? One quoted me $325, the other dealer $250.

    Thank you for your help,
     
  12. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    2,705
    510
    63
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    I may still be in denial since I bought the car new and it is still young, though the 12V battery may have been sitting in the dealer's lot without charging for months before I bought the car. During Christmas it sat 10 days with SKS left on - I thought it would automatically turn off after some days but it didn't. On the first working day the IGN-ON mode read 11.5V and dropped down to 10.7V with both headlights and rear defogger on. The car started fine and did a day of commuting, about 40 minutes each way. The next morning the readings came back up to 11.8V and 10.9V, not particularly impressive but not far off from previously measured "norm" either. I do garage the car so temp was at least above freezing. Still unwilling to give up yet ...
     
  13. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    793
    50
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I left it for 32 days with the SKS on last summer and mine is 44 months old. So even though the voltage seems to be okay, it seems that the fact that it won't allow itself to be charged more than 12V means that's its going bad. That's how I am reading people's reactions. I would rather pay 6 months early each time I have to replace it and stay on the road, rather than having to deal with tow truck companies and loss of service for a weekend...

    The current advice on this board is to charge your battery overnight using a 12V battery charger and see whether your it can hold up the increased charge. I tried doing something similar during two long trips over the New Year's weekend, during which the HV battery was charging the 12V battery, but the IG-ON voltage didn't increase all that much and people here seem to think I needs to replace it. I guess they are somewhat tired of answering threads about bizarre main computer behavior or, like me, are typically fastidious with their maintenance :cheer2:
     
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    A fully-charged new 12V battery should measure ~12.9V (no load voltage) out of the box. Pls tell us what you measure when the car is IG-ON.

    MSRP of the 12V battery is $138.70 (at the parts counter) and the part number is 28800-21170 for the Smart-equipped 2G. I assume that the quotes you received include labor.
     
  15. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    793
    50
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Thanks to the one-time poster dvikib who I emailed separately, I have found that Thompson Toyota at Edgewood charges $138.70 for the part and $28 for the labor, that's a savings of $85 from Russel Toyota and $160 from Jerry's Toyota.

    He wanted the last 8 digits of my VIN to identify the correct part#. I asked him to charge it overnight and he told me not to worry because all the batteries at this dealership are only stocked for a maximum of one week.

    I'll take it for the replacement tomorrow and post the measurement on Friday morning.
     
  16. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Seems reasonable; the battery that I bought for my 2007 a couple of months ago had been received by my local dealer one day before I bought it, and measured 12.9V out of the box. However its manufacture date in Japan was around four months prior to the dealer's receipt.
     
  17. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    793
    50
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    So you're not a big fan of the yellow top batteries?
     
  18. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I'm not; but it appears that several active PC members are.

    My thinking is that the original equipment battery has met my needs. The batteries on my 2001 and 2004 lasted 6 years before I replaced them as preventive maintenance (they were still functioning at the time they were retired.) The 2007's battery died after 4 years but that car is currently used on an infrequent basis. Since then, I'm pursuing a more diligent program of keeping the 12V batteries in all four household vehicles charged up on a regular basis.

    I don't feel that the incremental value from the Optima is worth that battery's price and the work to replace the battery connectors. (I've already done the drill of replacing the battery connectors on my 2001 when I installed a Panasonic 12V battery which was stocked by Toyota dealers as a higher capacity alternative to the original equipment battery.)
     
  19. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    793
    50
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    new under load at ig-on shows between 12.1 and 12.2. Second read at 12.4 or 12.3. No a/c or headlights on.
    new at ACC the same day it was replaced stable at 12.9

    looking good?
     
  20. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Yes.