Blizzaks.....the verdict is in.....

I don't think you can really beat studded. I've been on mirror-frozen lakes with dirtbikes and 4 wheelers with studded tires, and you can ride pretty much "normal".

I'm not surprised at all regarding the blizzaks though, it's pretty common sense really, no thread pattern will help you on ice regardless of what the manufacturer claims. However, I would imagine they kick arse in snow, there the thread pattern suddenly makes a huge difference...

 

a thaw with an overnight freeze makes the slipperiest ice there is. aint no plain rubber gonna help you on that

 

I'm surprised you don't like blizzaks. I've iceraced on Blizzaks for the last 5 years and have always won the bare tire classes and run lap times that would put me in the top 3 in the studded tire class. They are way above typical M+S rated tires, and about 95% as good as studs on ice, in fact they turn and stop better than studs. Studs do launch slightly better.

BTW, there are many different models of Blizzaks. The MZ series is the serious ice tire if I remember right. They have recently introduced a new model with embeded "bite particles" called the Revo 1. I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds very much like the Green Diamond tire that has been highly talked up over the last year.

 

I don't know why anyone would want those "Green Diamond" tires- certainly the concept sounds good, but they're retreads... They take an old worn-out tire, sand off the original markings and what's left of the tread, then remold a new tread on top of the old casing.. Although the tread is now new, there's still a lot of the original tire- the performance of the tire will depend a lot on the original casing: how round, diameter tolerances, sidewall stiffness, quality of ride, etc will be variable from tire to tire depending on what the donor tire originally was.. Sorry, but I wouldn't risk it... I'd consider the Blizzaks with their half-a-tread before I'd go with a retread..

 

I've run Blizzak WS50s for the last few years on my Saab, and the improvement on ice is incredible, particularly as the Saab has low-profile summer-only tires on it otherwise. Independent testers repeatedly confirm a significant improvement on starting and stopping on ice (using ice rinks, not snow) compared to M+S tires. It's not the tread pattern, it's the soft multicell compound in the first half of the tread that does it. See tirerack.com, for example.

However, I would think that studded tires would be MUCH better than Blizzaks.

 

I'd expect Prius owners to be more open to the idea of using "recycled" tire carcasses. I've read nothing but good reviews of Green Diamond tires, and would have bought them myself last year except the entire year's production had already been sold out.

 

Well pretty much *any* of the "studless ice radials" produced in recent years will give a stellar improvement vs. summer or even the old M+S "winter" tires..

From the many tire reviews I've read in the course of my winter tire research, it seems: 1) studs give improvements in ice performance, but don't really help in other areas (and in some cases, actually degrade performance- ie on pavement). 2) two types of compound are commonly available in winter tires today, used separately or in combination: a) soft microporous rubber first pioneered by Bridgestone in their Blizzak tires, B) compounds with traction additives such as those pioneered by Toyo and Yokohama (Toyo's "microbit" walnut shell compound, Yokohama's nylon fibre "ministuds"). 3) tread pattern is what mostly affects deep snow performance- deep lugs with lots of edges help bite into snow..

As I've said many times, my big problem with the Blizzaks is that although they're a good tire, they're also charging a premium price for what amounts to half a tire.. Only the top 55% of the tread is the microporous rubber, the rest is the old useless M+S compound.. They could get away with it when they were the only game in town, but the last few years, every other manufacturer has developed their own comparable microporous rubber compounds, and they're producing full-depth treads in their tires and without a premium price.. The common argument used to justify the 50% Blizzaks is that tires lose all useful winter traction after 50% wear, but in my experience this is absolutely untrue- on my Corolla, I've had superior winter traction out of my full-tread compound Toyos almost right down to the wear bars; it was only the very last season before I retired them that I noticed a decrease in snow traction (more spinning in deep snow due to reduced tread depth, but no perceptible difference in ice traction since the walnut compound was full-depth). I'm sorry, but I have a real problem paying a 20% price premium twice as often, especially since the field has effectively caught up in terms of technology (even the Revo is nothing new- Toyo's had microporous rubber in combination with their microbit compound for a couple of years now, same with Yokohama, and those Green Diamond tires are a similar concept- which could have been a winner if they made new tires from the ground up vs. retreads) and performance (European tests show the Blizzak is only middle of the pack)..

 

There's no real problem with recycling conceptually, but there's many ways to do it, and some ways are better than others.. I would think the best way to recycle tires is to shred the rubber and recompound it.. As I've noted previously, reusing carcasses although another environmentally sound proposition, presents the problem that every tire could have a different carcass underneath the new tread and thus completely different handling, performance and ride characteristics.. It would be like putting 4 completely different tires on your car.. You could luck out and the car handles just fine, or it might not.. Winter driving is treacherous enough without taking a gamble on what may or may not be hidden underneath a new tread no matter how great or environmentally friendly the technology..

My feeling is that much of the Green Diamond reputation is hype over a new product and that it likely will not last long in the marketplace in its current incarnation (someone will probably buy them out and use the technology in new tires)

 

Green Diamond Tires... a respectful rebuttal

Fully realizing that this thread dates back to 2005, nonetheless, i wish to begin here and post a mild rebuttal to the mis-information that was expressed as fact.

As the owner of Green Diamond Tire - North America, i am also a Prius owner for both personal and commercial fleet use.

The Green Diamond Tire (GDT) is a REMOLD... not a retread or recap. The ONLY similarity in technology to a retread/recap in the building of a GDT is the use of an existing tire casing. The engineering and manufacturing cure process is more akin to that of new tire manufacture, albiet on a much reduced production volume.

Regarding quaility... it starts with GDT being a USA-based ISO9k series certified manufacturing factory and we are currently pursuing the environmental standards certification that will ensure that at GDT, we are the 'greenest' tire manufacturer on our planet.

Fully 80% of potential 'donor' casings evaluate by GDT are REJECTED for quality reasons. The very first criterium is age of casing as we will not remold a casing that is older than 2006. Then casing manufacturer and class of casing (replacement market vs. OEM... yes- there is a big difference). And then of course, casing size/geometry/condition.

GDTs have been built in Scandinavia and Europe for well over a decade. Here in the US, we use the best business practices and lessons learned from those operations to build the finest winter tires available.

Independent 3rd party laboratories have established that GDTs out perform the very tires from which they are built, obviously save a casing from clogging a landfill, and when it comes to light truck-class GDTs, we save over a barrel of oil for every set of GDTs that we produce.

GDTs always raise a bit of skepticism because of the 2nd life given to a tire casing... and that is fair enough. I ask only that i be given the opportunity to educate those who will listen and consider with an open mind the benefits of the GDT.

I drive a Prius for reason of personal responsibility to our environment and the desire to mitigate my negative impact. It was only until recently that we began to build the GDT in a Prius OEM size... and that was due to the demand that we recieved from the many Prius owners that 'get it' and have requested us to respond to the Prius market.

Your questions, comments and yes, complaints are alway welcomed and i promise to respond openly and honestly to all that may be intersested.

I look forward to learning from, and becoming a contributor to this fine forum. Please be patient and bear with me as i defend my product against those that would hope that we did not exist. Without an advertising budget of the major manufacturers, it is always a daunting task to overcome the marketing hype and thoughtless venom expressed by those that are not informed or worse.

Thank you one and all... and kind regards.

Rich Gostenik
Owner / President / CEO
Green Diamond Tire - North America

303.806.1112 (local Colorado)
866.380.0009 (toll-free)
303.808.7280 (mobile)



__________________________________________________

I don't know why anyone would want those "Green Diamond" tires- certainly the concept sounds good, but they're retreads... They take an old worn-out tire, sand off the original markings and what's left of the tread, then remold a new tread on top of the old casing.. Although the tread is now new, there's still a lot of the original tire- the performance of the tire will depend a lot on the original casing: how round, diameter tolerances, sidewall stiffness, quality of ride, etc will be variable from tire to tire depending on what the donor tire originally was.. Sorry, but I wouldn't risk it... I'd consider the Blizzaks with their half-a-tread before I'd go with a retread..

 

Hello, 'Narf' and good folks of this forum/thread...

Thank you for your receptiveness to, and supportive words on behalf of the Green Diamond Tire (GDT)

Yes- i know that this thread is several years old. However, i am on a bit of a quest in that i am now a Prius owner and want to become more involved in the Prius community.

As the owner of Green Diamond Tire - North America, i pledge to the readers of this forum to openly and honestly answer all questions regarding this very, very green tire product.

Kind regards.

~rich

 

You really cannot compare studded tires to non-studded tires - that's the bottom line.

Studded tires are the ONLY tire that works well on ice. However, the obvious drawback is that they don't perform well in other situations.

... Brad

 

The studded Goodyear Nordic - aka Goodyear Ultra Grip 500 sold in Europe - actually do perform well in all conditions. True, they can be noisy on dry pavement due to the very aggressive tread pattern (A hum/growl resonance at around 55-60 km/h).

Due to the directional tread pattern, heavy siping, and deep tread, they actually work better driving on standing water than the Michelin Harmony I run the rest of the year

I know I've covered this before, but here is the link to the Goodyear EU site. Canadian Tire sells the same tire, but it is called the Goodyear Nordic in Canada

Goodyear Eur-Winter Tire-UltraGrip 500

If you click on "Profile" a Flash movie loads that explains the tire construction and benefits.

 

BAC...

I will readily concede that studded tires provide unbeatable traction on ice when they are new and up to a point when they have... say 8-12k miles of dry pavement running on them... before the tungsten pins have worn down they become rounded-over nubs.

However, it is also when studded tires are at their most effective that they also do the most damage to road surfaces... collectively sending tens of thousands of tons of asphalt particulate into the atmosphere annually. It is for this reason alone that currently studded tire use is restricted or forbidden in 33 states.

The Green Diamond Tire is just reaching its' prime in terms of ice and snowpack traction when the tire has 30-40k+ miles on them without the road noise or damage associated with studded tires.

Plus not needing to remove them for 'summer' tires as you do studded tires, make them that much more environmentally responsible and eco-nomical.

~rich