About to buy a used prius

Interesting... thanks!

I wonder why:
- At Side-by-Side Comparison, neither WA nor NM are highlighted as having the less polluting version when there are multiple versions/certifications for EPA air pollution scores. For example, I checked the 2010 Prius and 2011 Chevy Malibu 4-cylinder and clicked Show Detailed Air Pollution Information.
- (Less important)The NAH isn't listed as available in NM or WA.

edit: Hmm, per http://www.governor.wa.gov/blog/20090127.asp

I don't know what the status is now. I wasn't in WA state in 2005 nor when the above blog entry went up.

 

Still running perfectly after 126,000 miles and no repairs except for 3 tail light bulbs

 

THREE tailight failures ?!
I think you got a lemon, Justin

 

Welcome, and smart move to not buy a warranty from that dealer.
Whether to buy a warranty at all is a hot topic you can read at PC. Two useful tidbits to know from the start is that you have until the original 3/36 warranty ends to make up your mind, and if you do decide to buy one, this forum has a deal that so far as I know is the least expensive available.

The tale about dying sensors is BS.

 

Care to quantify that ?

Don't some fail at just past 100K ?

It depends.

 

Care to quantify "some?"

One qualitative data point is that lightly used traction batteries are about $500, while new ones are $2300 from Toyota. So we know that the failure number is considerably less than the fleet which has been totaled in accidents.

 

This is a good thread and one that is timely for me. I hope to acquire a used 2005 soon so I am reading up on Prius facts as much as I can right now. I do a major part of my own car repair and hope to continue that with a Prius. Although it sounds like they don't break down too often.

 

Soon. For his science fair project, my son is reconditioning a string of 27 modules out of a battery that failed at 120K and will measure the amp hour capacity after two full discharge/charge cycles. The battery failed due to one bad module. His questions to answer will be what is the amp hour capacity after 120K miles of use in general, and whether or not the presence of a bad module affects nearby modules, particularly the one that was blocked with the bad one. Results will be posted in the technical details section.

You give the impression that Gen II batteries are fragile. Why?

 

There are a few jobs where a factory level scan tool is essential. Fortunately, the most common repair and maintenance jobs are well documented here, and don't normally require a scan tool: replacing HID bulbs, inverter cooling pump (recalled for 04-06 but now seeing failures in 07-08), cleaning MAF sensor and throttle body, as well as most maintenance items. They don't break down very often.

The dealer service department is often the only option for lack of a conveniently located dedicated hybrid shop or Toyota specialty shop. The average independent service shop may or may not be capable of performing some repairs. One example is that replacing the engine coolant (such as during a water pump repair) is problematic without using a scan tool to fill the coolant thermos. It can be done (thanks Patrick Wong) but the average mechanic would most likely refer you back to the dealer.

 

Totally! I was going to start a thread about how much I hate my Prius but I realized that 2 bulbs went out on one side of the car and the 3rd went out on the other side. This doesn't qualify me for the Lemon Law so I am just biding my time and I pray every night that my HV battery doesn't burn out on me like tpfun is warning everyone.....

 

:rockon: Cheers Justin!

Seillerts, I want to pick your brain a little on this problem of auto discharge of traction batteries sitting around unused. Would you comment on how quickly it happens, irreversibility, and recharge routines ? I noticed that re-involt has gone so far as two specifically mention in their ebay ad that they will not accept batteries that have sat for 'extended' times.

 

Well, on my other cars I do brakes, axles, water pumps, heater cores, electrics, etc. Not being familiar with the Prius yet I can say now that I can probably deal with mechanical issues, however electronic issues that require computer diagnostic equipment, may be a problem.

 

Oldwolf: Taylor Automotive in Sanford NC is one of the premier hybrid shops in the country, so you may have an alternative to the dealer if they aren't too far from you. There is a vast wealth of DIY information on Prius Chat as well. The dealers try to scare owners into thinking that they are the only ones that can service these complex hybrids, but most jobs aren't hard.

SageBrush, there is no consensus for irreversible damage due to length of storage time. I have one compelling data point. I reconditioned the battery in the Honda Insight that NREL used for hybrid research in 1999-2000. The car appeared to have sat for 10 years. The pack was completely out of balance, with some modules reading as low as 4V. Yet all modules were back up to 5 amp hours after just two cycles, and the car has been in service for months without an IMA light. The guy that runs hybrid-battery-repair.com reports similar, that "age does not equal condition."

ReInvolt is referencing 01-03 cores. They sell those modules on Ebay. If a battery has been sitting for a while, it would be difficult to tell a bad module from a good one without sending through at least one charge/discharge cycle. That's quite a job to do on 38 modules that you would sell on Ebay for $10. Maybe they don't want to bother with that.

An MRC Superbrain 989 is the primary tool for reconditioning these batteries. Everyone uses a different technique. Page 6 of the Duracell NiMH manual has a good explanation of the voltage depression problem. http://www1.duracell.com/oem/Pdf/others/nimh_5.pdf I use a slow charge/fast charge/slow charge approach to wake up, charge, and balance a module that has been sitting for a long time.

 

Wonderful information Seilerts, thanks very much. Do you have any insight whether discharged modules that have been reconditioned will have a shortened life, assuming they recharge back up to their neighbors ?

It sounds like battery reconditioning is a module by module process. I can see where that might be boring

The website you mentioned is informative. It is *great* to see expertise cropping up around the country. This tidbit was interesting

I presume he is talking about packs that have not been reconditioned and balanced ? It still surprises me though, because I thought the car's BMS manages errant modules to bring them up to their neighbors. Comment ?

 

Its going to be a big switch going from the Land Rover to the Prius. Land Rovers have awful reliability history and guzzle gas. Congrats on the move. I think you will be very pleased with your choice. The Toyota Prius requires minimal maintenance, environmental friendly, great reliability history, and you will probably triple your gas mileage compared to the Land Rover. :rockon:

 

This is in reference to Honda battery packs. Honda does not do block-by-block battery management. [1 block == 2 modules] Instead, all blocks are presumed equal capacity and state of charge, and only when the voltage of one block exceeds the reference range does the battery computer take action to "recalibrate" the pack. Over time, the divergence between high and low grows to the point that the recalibration procedure fails to work, and P1447 appears. Or, a cell goes bad, and you get P1447 and P1449.

The bad Prius pack I am looking at had 7.68V - 7.70V at every single module except the bad one. I suspect that the balancing algorithm in Prius battery computer is capable of shunting current to low and/or from high block in order to keep the the string balanced, and so can easily recover a salvage pack from the self-discharge imbalance problem. All Prius packs will eventually suffer to some degree from the voltage depression issue, however, given the 40%-80% SoC range.

 

Thanks for the info Seilerts on Taylor Auto. Sanford NC is not that far from me. I went to their website and while they mention working on Hybrids they sure don't make a big deal about it!