Ethanol Cure - Star Tron?

Ethanol has a higher octane rating than most gasoline blends. Ethanol should be over 110 octane.This is why various alcohol-based fuels are used in high horsepower racing. I regularly used methanol injection in my turbocharged truck when going into a high boost setting. This high octane fuel injection resisted detonation better than 93 octane gasoline alone. Is the ethanol used in our gasoline blends different in some way?

Octane will not by itself reduce power or fuel economy unless the wrong octane is used in a specific car. A car like the Prius which is designed to run on 87 octane will not, under usual circumstances, make more HP or get better economy by running 93 or 105 octane. The lose in fuel economy generated by the use of ethanol in fuel mixes is based on the much lower energy content of ethanol compared to gasoline.

 

You have that backward: ethanol increases octane, not the other way around. It is used as an octane booster and as an oxygenator to reduce emissions.

Ethanol decreases fuel economy because ethanol has a lower energy density than gasoline. It's as simple as that. It's a common misconception that higher octane equates to higher energy density.

Tom

 

Is is possible for you to purchase Ethanol free gas where you live? I live in North East Tennessee. Here in Erwin and Unicoi there are at least 2 gas stations that sell Ethanol free gas. The gas station I go to is in Erwin and the price is about .20 more per gallon than blended gas. I am wary of additives because you don't know if it will harm your ICE or not. The manufacture can claim that it wont and offer a few testimonials but one can't be sure if they are true. If you can get Ethanol free gas where you live, then you can be pretty sure that it won't harm your ICE. I just feel that since I spent the money on the car I don't want to do something to harm it. Not sure if my comment helped, but I thought I should make the suggestion of Ethanol free gas.

 

BULL!
The fuel is not "contaminated" with ethanol; it is formulated with ethanol. Down in Brazil, an entire nation is switching over to ethanol fuels.

Get a grip.
You sound like an over-wrought nanny.

 

Surely you misunderstood my question. I wasn't suggesting that you let your other vehicle get ruined by the Ethanol. If you are able to try something that won't harm your other vehicle then I say try it. I was merely asking if Ethanol Free gas was available where you live. The other parts of my statements were my own opinions. I am just too chicken to even try any kind of additive for fear of potentially voiding my warranty. Since I just got my Prius in January, I would be too afraid unless it was something that Toyota sold and recommended. If your vehicle that you want to try the product in is out of warranty, then I say go for it. I hope this clears up the misunderstanding.

 

It isn't often that I agree with someone 100% on something. But this I do have agree with you. Brazil went to pure Ethanol many years ago. In fact petroleum based gas down there costs quite a bit more than Ethanol. They have a very abundant sugar crop in Brazil which makes for a steady supply of Ethanol. The energy used to make Cane Ethanol is much less than the energy used to make Corn Ethanol. You are correct again when you said that cars in Brazil are specifically designed to run on pure Ethanol. I have to agree again that Ethanol in this country has been forced on us. If our government truly wanted us off of petroleum based fuels then they would have required the change a long time ago and cars would have been designed to withstand the corrosive effects of Ethanol. Blending Ethanol into gas isn't an energy solver. I needs to be Either Or. Either 100% Cane Ethanol or 100% Petroleum Gas. Heck we have so much Natural Gas in this country that we could even safely switch to that. There are much better alternatives to Ethanol in my opinion.

Just as a side note. We are capable in the US of producing a huge Sugar Cane crop for Cane Ethanol and still have plenty of sugar left over for our sweetener with out drastically increasing the cost of sugar. At one time most of the sugar produced in the US was grown domestically. In South Georgia where I grew up there used to be lots of farms that grew sugar cane. Sugar cane is like Bamboo, it grows fast and multiplies quite fast. There is no real reason short of government and lobbyist interference that we can't grow enough sugar in the US to supply our fuel and sweetening needs.

 

Waitaminute.....

You guys are going to have to excuse me, since I didn't pay attention to any of the Chem classes that I never went to but (comma) what the heck is the difference between ethanol that is produced from sugar cane, and ethanol that is produced from corn???
The US in in fact, the largest importer of ethanol from Brazil---or at least we were in 2007. Are you saying that none of that alcohol finds its way into the fuel supply?

Leaving all of the silly land use issues aside for just this moment, Brazil seems to use the sucrose from sugarcane to produce ethanol----the same way that we use simple sugars from corn produce the same product, and then they take the residual bio-stuff and burn it for electricity....a process that is evolving into an ethanol conversion from the same residual stalks...etc. Rum (in thecase of the former) and corn whiskey (for us Norte Americanos) are made in the same manner---we just take some time to filter, age, blend, bottle, tax, and market the final product to satisfy a different energy need...

Somebody is going to have to 'explain the difference between the two ethanols, because I can't get my head around how the 1.8 liter (litre, for those who drive on the wrong side of the road) motor in my Prius is going to be able to discern between these two vintages.

The "energy balance' for sugar alky is about 5 times better than the corn fed stuff. I get that...and I've seen directly conflicting data supporting both the ideas that sugar cane plantations are both much more and much less 'sustainable' than corn or other row crop production. Personally, I lean more towards the former and I suspect that sugar antagonists are just opposed to Brazilian farmers hacking down acres and acres (hectares and hectares, for you right-hand drivers) of the pretty "rain forest."

So....what exactly is the difference between sugar ethanol and corn ethanol?

Also....I've been to Brazil a half dozen times. There are currently something like 30 million cars there (compared to something like 250 for the US.) I didn't see vast numbers of them dead on the side of the road from alcohol poisoning, and they're not by any means all modern cars (or boats...or motorcycles.)

What I personally suspect is that people, and not internal combustion engines, have very strong feelings against ethanol based or sullied fuels.
I'll wait for some chemist out there to 'explain to me why corn alky will kill my ICE faster than sugar alky------and maybe we'll learn something here.

 

Ethanol is ethanol from a chemical standpoint - it doesn't matter how it is made. Some forms of production can leave traces of other compounds, but that isn't an issue when we are talking about sugar fermentation. Your car or your body won't see any difference.

Land use is another issue. Obviously there are big differences depending on the type of crop, or if we use waste materials. That topic shouldn't be ignored, but it doesn't enter into the chemical properties of ethanol.

Tom

 

E10 is injector cleaner. The Prius, along with every other recent car, is designed to run fine on E10. Horror stories about a 20 year old car are pointless.

Agreed, making fuel ethanol from corn is stupid, but that is a different discussion.

 

Concur....but that's not my fight.
It irritates me somewhat that companies like Kinpac Inc. profit on the gullibility of motorcycle and (some) auto and boat owners----but I guess that's not my fight either....

If you want to fight the good fight against corn liquor, and you're not in a position to buy E0, a diesel powered car, or an EV---- IMHO (and it's only that) you're going to have to bring something to the argument a little weightier than "that stuff is wrecking my engine."
That seems like some of the daffy 'Anti Prius logic' that we're always fighting......
Again.....JMHO.

The original question: Re: Ethanol Cure - Star Tron?
Answer.... Nope. It's not Star Tron. It's education.

 

I live in Missouri where it is a state law that every gallon of unleaded gas must include a minimum of 10% ethanol which I hate for various reasons excluding environmental. Ethanol will reduce your fuel economy and it does screw up small engines. It has screwed up my chain saw which I had to have repaired. I have also done tests on my different vehicles using regular unleaded with at least 10% ethanol versus premium with no ethanol. My 3rd generation Prius averaged over 3 mpg better with premium and no ethanol. Ethanol sucks and the only reason that it is being forced down our throats is becaause of the power of the farm lobby and politics.





I was thinking of staring the same thread, thanks. Is the ethanol reeking havoc on your MPG's? I am averaging in the mid 50's , but I feel even though the sticker on the pump says may contain up to 10% ethanol I don't think it is being added. It's just another expense for the gas stations and something else that must be imported and blended in. As I mentioned in the other thread I have used it my small gas engines and they seem to run better when I do put it in. I have both a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke string trimmer and with the 4 stroke I seem to notice performance comparable with nonethanol fuel. With my 2 stroke hedge trimmer and chain saw I did not really notice. I appreciate you being the guinea pig and taking the lead on this one. On another note how are you window vents working out for ya, any decrease in MPG's.[/QUOTE]

 

My car runs better when it is clean. I also notice that it corners better after an oil change.

Subjective assessments like this aren't worth much.

Tom

 

Where did these Star Tron trolls come from?
Whether you like ethanol or not, Star Tron is BS.
.., but then maybe some people still believe in the Easter Bunny?

 

Wow, I personally don't know if Star Tron does anything or not. But I'd prefer to get some facts and users experience about it before labeling it BS. And being objective about it dosn't require a belief in the Easter Bunny too.