2nd Generation Volt under $30K with tax credit?

I think there will be a backlash first before vanishing. We are already seeing the truth spreading to the mainstream media. Many people can distinguish between a hybrid and EV. They now have the green car list based on our government research data, instead of hype.

 

Yeah, still better than Toyota pushing the Prius Plugin vaporware...

 

Not even trying to be constructive anymore. Wonder what that indicates?

The difference between the plug-in model Prius and Volt should be obvious at this point. Toyota is closely sticking to the price & performance goals. GM abandoned their goals, then discovered too late that was big mistake. So even before rollout began, there was already talk about what the second generation model must deliver.

The situation is a mess now. They've got a vehicle the enthusiasts love and the mainstream regard as just a curiosity. In other words, Volt is a niche and GM is scrambling to figure out how to transform it without wrecking its appeal.
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Toyota is clearly engaging in a FUD campaign aimed at the other PHEV's and EV's which are leapfrogging the current Prius design, leading everyone on with a Prius PHEV which is always just around the corner.

How many times now have it been delayed ?

Tell me, is the 4th generation Prius a plugin optimized design ? The 3rd generation is clearly not.
Should people wait for the 4th generation ?

Why do you insist on talking about price and performance goals of vaporware ?

Show me when the Prius Plugin is real. Then we can discuss price and performance.

 

You are referring to the Prius PHEV, right ?

 

Didn't they just start testing the prototype PHV in real world conditions last year? Sure, we'd all like to see it out yesterday, but why should Toyota rush it? They already sell the most fuel efficient car around! I'll worry about plug ins when my Prius is considered a gas guzzler!

 

I am not Toyota and I think Prius PHV is a realistic design with balanced goals. Toyota never announced Prius PHV until recently with the introduction of new family members. It is supposed to come out in 2012 so it has never been delayed.

I see Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles repeating all over again. PNGV set the goals unrealistically too high (80 MPG). Toyota set out to double the Corolla's MPG (about 45). A viable product (Prius) came out from setting a realistic goal that is worth the challenge. I see this happening again with the plugin hybrids.

 

All I can say is that Toyota has been very successful with the Prius. 10 years ago, most people would have thought that the Prius would be a niche vehicle and never be profitable. Today, with over 900,000 sold in the U.S., I think it is safe to say those people were wrong.

I am sure that the products Toyota has in the works will be well worth the wait. And, I bet they are profitable and directed at the mainstream, not just a few people that are willing to spend 45k on car.

 

OMG, this is really funny. sarcasm. wait, you are serious. sorry. but thanks for the entertainment. why do you even care? or bother?

With all the facts and data and scrutiny and testing and more facts and data...is it just too much to handle? get back to me when the 'game changer' actually changes anything at GM.

 

Sure thing.

This thread is hardly one about facts or real data, every post is littered with marketing fluff, mine included.

Feel free to join us in the other technical threads discussing the merits of the different PHEVn's.

 

The 3rd gen Prius PHV is an add-on to the Prius HEV, not a vehicle designed from scratch as a PHEV application.

What's in store for the 4th gen Prius ?
Do you know when that is "supposed to come out" ?

 

I don't know and I don't think we'll find out from Toyota any time soon. GM discussed about Gen2 Volt before Gen1 came out because Gen1 did not meet any of the goals.

 

The Gen IV should be a 2016 model that comes out in 2015.

From a pure speculation POV the replacement of the phv prius is being developed now.

The replacement for the phv prius should have a cost advantage over the Gen II volt. The volt will have used up all of its tax credits, and Toyota will still have plenty.

 

I've no idea where you get that idea from. The OP's claims belong in the marketing fluff bucket.

The two links simply refer to GM's work to reduce costs. Do you expect them not to ?

quote: GM Ventures President Jon Lauckner, “and you take a whole lot of cost out of the vehicle.”

 

Yeah, Toyota has to be working on the 2015-16 Prius PHEV at this very moment.

Is it a design built around a battery (aka Volt) or is the PHEV function a mere add on (2012-13 Prius PHEV) ? Personally, I hope it's the former since that's the right thing to do.

 

So... you're claiming the flexible design is a shortcoming? Whatever. That's just spin nonsense derived by the 100 km/h limit.

Study of the design clearly shows that Prius was designed to sustain electric-propulsion with available engine-assist.
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Scaling down the battery to reduce cost means greater reliance on the engine, which isn't any more efficient than a traditional vehicle. How is that right?

With the PHV, you still get 50 MPG after depletion.
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Prius PHV.

Let's hope Gen IV gets the beefed-up hybrid system of the PHV and can do better than 45mph glides.

Well, I certainly hope that's the case. It would be great to see 200k Volts sold, along with a ton of LEAFs, Focuses, C-Maxs, Gen III Prius PHVs, RAV4EVs, Ss, Karmas etc, etc.

 

A flexible design requires tradeoffs ; in the Prius case, the supportable battery capacity is low because the bigger battery just can't fit unlike in other purposed built PHEV's designed to hold a high capacity battery.
The inability to run in pure EV mode past 60mph is another result of this flexible design.
I will ask again if Toyota is making the same flexible vs purpose built tradeoffs in its 4th Gen.

There is no question the Prius is the MPG king for CS mode operation but the real value proposition of the purpose built PHEV is the high battery capacity which allows extended CD operation. If one's commute is entirely in CD mode, the CS mode's MPG is moot.

 

They are planning Gen1.5 or Gen2 to 10 years / 150k miles warranty and AT-PZEV emission under $30k. Those are a few of the goals from Gen1.