Comparison Test: 2011 Chevrolet Volt vs. 2010 Toyota Prius PHV

Let's see where we have come. I commented that this statement was false and misleading. Then I responded with information that showed it was false. Plugging the Volts gas engine will not make it come on. If you remote start it the engine might come on if its very cold. Open the garage before starting your car. It seems like common sense. I assumed usb was just parroting some bad infomation because it sounded good to him.

That was not the reason for the post. I'm not sure who thought the original point was being as clean as possible, I'm not even sure what that means. Yes, if you fill your volt with wind electricity like my neighbor does it will be cleaner than the phv prius. If you don't plug it in, it will burn more gas. What is wrong with me pointing out that the top statement was false. Why can't we have a choice with these cars.

well what can I say to that. I don't have a co meter and a volt, but I would think you would just agree with the point and move on. If you read my statement I did give some co levels while driving. Your source is not really commenting on a low emmission vehicle like the volt, which has less than 7% of the CO of the average car in 2000. Open the garage door. But if you don't you aren't going to die unless you try very hard. Intentional Carbon Monoxide Poisoning ? CHEST

but really what are you arguing about. Its a car, open the garage before starting it. If you accidentally forget, you are more likely to be killed by an asteroid.

I'm not sure. How many cold days would the owner remote start his car in the garage. He seems likely for a darwin award. Would you continously start your prius with the garage door closed. I never remote started my lexus with the door closed.

DOh.

 

The point was that even if you plugged it in and the battery fully charged, and the car was turned off, the gas engine can come on. All it takes is, start the preconditioning feature.

If the Volt was not plugged in and the battery low, it makes sense to use the gas engine to precondition. Why use gas if the battery was full and it can draw electricity from the plug?

 

I was talking about the Volt. It was hyped as an EV. I was pointing out that it doesn't behave like one (Leaf).

 

Does anyone have the Prius mpg chart running with battery at 0% ?

 

The flip side is that the Prius' drivetrain is capable of frying itself.

 

MPG chart is equal to the conventional Prius's.
Do you have that?

 

2 million units sold, you must have a number already. Can you share it?

 

No, it isn't. that's precisely why the traction control system you seem to hate so much is there.

What is your agenda?

 

thats pretty stupid from them... then again, it not being PZEV is also incredibly stupid from GM.

 

Since we obviously have a lot of younger members (less than 74 years old), I am going to relate a rather old story. I will change car names to fit this discussion. About 6-8 years ago the powers-that-be at GM called in their top engineers. " Ok, guys and gals you see here before you a brand new Toyota Prius. There is no reason why we can't make a hybrid just this good. Money is no issue. We want you to get going. Get busy". And so they put their shoulder to the wheel and began to design the Chevy Volt. After numerous launch delays, in 2011 they finally rolled out the Volt and declared that they had completed the job they were given. They were almost right. They did build a hybrid that is as good as the Prius was 6-8 years ago!

 

This is quite brain dead as well. What's the limiting factor preventing full EV operation at all throttle levels ?

quote: If driven with care, the Prius PHV can reach 62 mph (100 km/h) on electricity alone. I found this to be somewhat tricky as I tend to have a lead foot when it comes to the accelerator pedal. As a result, the gas engine tended to cycle on consistently before 62 mph.

2012 Toyota Prius PHV First Look, Review, and Road Test - The Diesel Driver

 

The limiting facotr is that the PHV has a smaller electric motor than the Volt, so if the user demands more than 60kw of power it HAS to use the engine. You know this alrerady, so not sure why you're asking.

There are only a few driving situations that -require- more than 60kw of power, such ascending a very steep hill (even at low speeds) or accelerating quickly to meet traffic flow. Even then it's possible to get by without. my first car had 38kw of power and i drove it up to 90,000 miles, and it could manage 103mph. it was perfectly adequate.

So toyota have a design which provides adequate power for normal driving. if the driver demands more power, it brings online the engine to supply it. if you're driving in eco mode, and don't floor it, it probably won't happen. The whole point is to use battery power under low demand, and under high demand use petrol. this makes the best use of both fuel sources. with the Volt, i could floor it like crazy from mile 0 up to mile 25, and the engine stays off. fine. then once i am in CS mode and relying on ALL motive power from the engine i might be pootling round town at 25mph, running the engine at an inefficient low power demand. with the prius, because the engine was assisting in my crazy driving, the battery power can instead be used in the low powere dmenad driving which it's suited to.

It's just a different strategy, one is "Use as much EV as possible" the other "use both fuel sources as much as possible". Which is correct depends very much on whether the operator want to use as little petrol as possible, or drive in the most efficient way possible. i'll grant you the difference is almost spltting hairs since both methods are certainly better than rocking round in a Tahoe, but while we still have limited battery power available (this argument will disappear within 10 years hopefully!) i tend to prefer the strategy of maximum efficiency.

 

Since 60kW is plenty for 60mph driving, that power level would not the limiting factor. However, given the following specs with ICE at 98hp , electric motor rating (kW) at 60, the combined horsepower at 134 @ 5,200, we can conclude the perhaps the real power of the battery/electric motor in the Prius PHV is only 36hp which would make more sense as a top EV speed limiting factor.
In contrast, Volt has a 111 kW electric motor sufficient for top speed of ???.

That would be torque instead of power for quick acceleration and again the Prius MG2 seems to have sufficient torque at hundreds of lbft.

 

It is the intelligent design. Over 50 mph, Volt's owner manual warns about significant EV range drop. Why continue to use the expensive and slow charging battery? It would be a dumb move especially when you have the 50 mpg ICE. It may justify in Volt due to 37 mpg ICE that runs on premium gas. However the battery still has to lug around the extra weight of the gas engine and all of the component.

Prius PHV's ICE is sized for average power demand rather than maximum. The same goes for the MG2. This downsizing strategy allows higher efficiency to both powertrains creating synergy. This is the well understood concept of HSD.

So why are you playing dumb? Because Volt is?

 

Tpfun, peak power of the 80 hp electric motor and 98 gas engine is at different speed. This elegant setup allows Prius to operate without a transmission (in tradition sense). Prius does not change gear ratio. It changes powertrains. High torque electric motor for low gear and low torque Atkinson gas engine for high gear.

Maximum power is reach between 50-70 mph - which is why it has great passing power. Prius PHV has top speed of 112 mph.

Why does Volt only reach 100 mph with the 150 hp - even with the 74 hp gas engine assisting? Inferior redundancy setup.

 

The nimh battery in the standard prius is rated to 25kw (36hp), so total system output is 134hp. PHV has a higher rated battery, i believe it's 60kw but that's worth checking.

137mph was the quoted top speed for the Ampera, but that information has now been removed from the Opel site. the 100mph top speed is limited by the genset, but you knew that already. It would be interesting to see which is more efficient at 100mph, the volt or the prius/prius phv. which do you think is?[/QUOTE]

 

100mph is purely a software limitation but for good reason.

It has very little to do with the drive train and more to do with being conservative and the choice of tires. As long as it goes 90mph I do not care where the limiter is set. 91mph would be fine.

In 25 years of driving, the only time I have been over 85mph is when I was being stupid.

 

No, the 100mph limit comes from the 1.4 engine, it's all it can manage. It has less power than the prius engine.

 

Someone came up with the amont in a different thread. It is definitely way bellow 60 kw. I can't remember the exact figure but I'll throw out 37. Only one ev battery pack is used at a time so this can definitely be "fixed" by toyota with the battery configuration when it ships. The power of the volts main motor also starts dropping around 45mph, which is why the generator motor comes into assist about 70mph. We can assume mg2 also can not provide peak power at higher speeds.

The other problem is the lack of the ability of the driver to lock it into ev mode, so it is difficult to drive as fast as possible in ev. Others including myself think toyota should allow the user to lock it into ev mode unless the thing is floored, and also to set it into cs mode to conserve battery later in the trip.

The phv does have the same maximum hp which is a surprising limitation that I hope will be corrected in Gen IV prius.

The top speed is limited by the torque charateristics of the motors and universal gear. It is not an engine limitation, or there would be two top speeds. It may be implemented in software though. I have no idea if the ampera is different. I would think a BMW M3 would be more efficient at 100 mph. The prius is far outside its design consideration there as well as the volt. They should do a comparo at 80 mph though, that would be interesting. The Gen III derinitely improved on above 60 mph design versus Gen II.

 

The limiting factor on Prius PHV max EV speed is not its 60kW MG2 but rather the discharge rate Toyota is limiting the EV packs.
If at 62mph EV drive the PHV uses 240Wh/mile then the discharge rate of the EV pack on line is 14.9kW.
I believe Toyota is limiting the discharge rate to about 15kW, this is probably done for the sake of battery life as unlike the HV pack, the EV packs are undergoing (each in its turn) deep discharge cycles (usable charge window of about 62% of rated charge according to my calculation shown in another thread).

Giora.