Comparison Test: 2011 Chevrolet Volt vs. 2010 Toyota Prius PHV

Where is that ICE mpg from ? I have never seen a test of the Prius PHV with battery completely discharged.

You mean the Prius PHV's EE is sized for average power demand. The Prius PHV ICE is even bigger than the Volt's.

No, the limitations of these vehicles and their root causes are interesting mysteries.

 

there is no such thing as completely discharged Prius battery, and interestingly enough, Prius Gen3 AR series engine went up so it can go down

 

So the Prius ICE efficiency is not 50mpg as quoted, there is always some measure of power from the EE. That would makes sense since 50mpg is high for any purely ICE driven vehicle.
I can believe 37mpg for the Volt ICE but 50mpg for the Prius ICE is not the case.

 

More numbers you are quoting there which I have not seen anywhere else, 80kW ? 80KW is plenty of power for 100kph.

 

Prius has a 1.8 liter Atkinson engine . "Bigger" in an ICE means better BSFC, which has been the reason for making 1.5 -> 1.8 increase when launching 3Gen Prius.

Volt is 1.4 Otto, which has less compression ratio than an Atkinson engine.

 

i am not sure what are you trying to get to? are you applauding Toyota for making better decisions than GM? Why in the world would hybrid be "purely" ICE driven?

Synergy between ICE and Electric is the heart of the Toyota HSD... official name is PSD.

You are paying premium for Hybrid so it would never be "purely" ICE driven .

 

let me guess - are you trying to expose Prius for what it "really" is?

Since all of the posts seem to point towards that... just keep reading posts here, there is not much unknown about Prius or Prius PHEV, but keep in mind that PHEV is just in testing, and final product could be quite different than what you have now. Thats why they are testing it.

 

Excuse me ?
I'm not the one claiming the Prius has a 50mpg ICE.

 

This is an interesting thread, and I am grateful that some of you understand the issues.

As for me,my understanding and appreciation is much more basic: I am grateful that Toyota has produced such a dependable, comfortable and efficient vehicle in the G3 Prius. Their approach is exactly correct in designing for efficiency, and not ... top speed. Here in the West, there are instances where the speed limit is 80 mph. That is more than sufficient for street driving by non-professionals.

 

I witnessed it firsthand driving the PHV and my average in the 2010 as of 34,940 miles is 50.2 MPG. What is there not to believe?
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Just google it. Prius PHV gets 50 MPG or close to it in HV mode from various tests. Of course we don't have the official EPA numbers yet. It should come out in less than a year when the 2012 model is ready.

 

Prius Atkinson cycle ICE has 98 hp. Similar midsize nonhybrid over 3,000 lbs would have 150 hp ICE. Think 2.4 liter Camry.

Volt has 1.4 liter anemic gas engine and it limits the top speed to 100mph, even below econoboxes. Take a look at MotorTrend's Volt electric motors (blended) power curve. It starts to tank after 70 mph!

 

2011 Chevrolet Volt Horsepower Graph Photo 43

You probably need to look back at the graphs. Its the all electric top speed that has trouble over 100mph. In fact at 100mph all electric power in the volt should be about the same as phv prius gas plus electric. With the ICE on the power of the volt is much higher than the phv prius, but.... that is going to run down the battery quickly and the volt was not designed to do these sustained speeds. The ampera may be as another poster had added.

Having more ICE power actually makes the gen III prius more efficient than having the smaller gen II engine. At 80 mph both cars are under powered, but neither were designed with the intent to travel over 90 mph. Otherwise the power would be bigger and tires would be stickier. Both can handle speeds on all American highways.

Neither the prius or volt is designed to run without large batteries so mpg with a dead battery means you need to replace it.

 

This is an interesting thread, and I've deliberately held off putting in my two cents (or euros, for our friends across the Atlantic) until I had a chance to drive the Volt and the new CT 200h from Lexus last night. (Yes, I realize this thread is about the Volt, humor me for one moment, I promise I'll connect the two together.)

Let me start off by saying my current Prius is my second; it is a first off the line, Prius V, with package AT. It's a good car. I'd consider myself to be "one of the converted" when it comes to the technology.

I wanted to drive a Volt later in the day in the Bay Area since you really can't get a chance to accelerate, deal with freeways, and stop and go except at certain times. I'll also be up front, that this is the car I wanted to hate. I've read this forum, and others, and didn't believe it would provide a good drive experience.

The car is well finished, with nice construction and well designed seats. I found the support and drive position more sporty. The front seat doesn't feel cramped but it is clearly not as roomy as the Prius. The center console was well designed, and is more in reach of the driver's position I felt. The controls outside of the touch screen take a bit getting used to -- there's no feedback when you depress them and I think a click or notification to the user would be helpful.

Moving to the back seat -- it is clearly more targeted at the Leaf or Insight (2010 or later) in terms of competitive positioning. It isnt as roomy as a Prius. You tend to sit lower and back so you don't notice it as much. Not bad for the compact space. The large center console continues to the back, which costs you a middle seat in the back but provides far more useful storage than my Prius' cup holders, which aren't deep enough and are easy to hit when people are talking. Headliner and appointments, along with interior materials are good and feel much more near luxury class than Chevy. I found the seat materials to be superior to the Prius leather.

Back to the driver's experience, depressing the on button greets the driver with two large LCD screens, with nice resolution and full color. The driver's primary instrumentation is software driven and configurable in the vehicle. It is well designed software, I was impressed. The animations add practical value and keep the driver's context through the different modes. There's also an in-car tutorial that can be triggered while in Park by the driver depressing the config key on the left side of the dash.

Now to the drive...
There's an electric parking brake actuator which is independent from the parking clutch interlock. It is released and activated via software. I released the brake, and shifted into reverse. My test vehicle was equipped with a reverse camera, and the nav screen goes into a reverse view, which is lighted and features software trend vectors-- a nice touch, and which change based on wheel position and vehicle velocity.

Shifting back into drive, I was impressed with the electric only power output and torque. The Volt has two electric motors, and was expecting the primary to be not very peppy. Acceleration and stopping for typical city driving felt very natural, much more than a typical hybrid where there is a marked handoff between electric only and hybrid modes. Steering and body roll were limited. It was windy, and to be frank, this vehicle handles much better in the wind and around corners. It handles very well for a car in its class, and feels less "bouncy" and more sure-footed.

Accelerating on to the freeway was a joy. The car was exceptionally quiet, and I found myself enjoying the electric torque power on demand. Visibility was excellent.

Mountains can be a problem; you need to plan ahead. The volt likes to be shifted into mountain mode or for any road with more than 5% grade. Technically, it's using the tandem power arrangement (and trading off efficiency) to give you the typical flat land power when negotiating mountains. I wouldn't suggest this vehicle for people doing lots of mountain driving, and don't want to suggest it is difficult to work with-- it's just something to note. Not using the mode seemed to provide adequate output, but I wasn't scaling the Sierras or highway 17 either.

I wanted the test vehicle to be low on electric power so I could see how the transition felt. It was seemless. I know it switched as the animated panel showed the electric fading into the background, the fuel tank became larger, and the car indicated it was harvesting power from the ICE system to generate propulsion.

The navigation system is well designed, better than other GM offerings. I like the fact the ridiculous lockout we have to fence with on the Prius wasn't present, but wasn't a fan of the menu system. The primary problem is selecting your primary destination. Fortunately, the well designed voice system did the job well but they really need to improve the software.

The premium audio system had excellent response. The Nav system has storage for music playback and also offers good Bluetooth and iOS support. The OnStar system, paired with the iOS app, provide the driver with some great options for controlling the vehicle and handling nav requests.

The car has a built-in system for managing the battery temps. Plugging it in should provide for the continued care of the system. The vehicle if parked outside may need to startup the engine, but this shouldn't be a concern in a garaged environment as the vehicle would presumably be plugged in at home.

I mentioned that I drove a CT 200h at the beginning of this post. The 200h has an interior that is very close to the Volt. It feels more upscale than the Prius, but to be honest, is only marginally better than the Volt. The tuning that Toyota has done with the CT 200h make it feel like a Volt's drive in terms of road feel, and the software changes for the brakes and acceleration make the car feel much more sporty. The panel looks much more polished, forgoing the dated '80s luminescent displays for a more refined LCD. It compares nicely to the Volt's UI polish, but admittedly, as a software person, I found the Volt has a more "tech" feel. The Lexus felt like a balance of the Volt's approach with the BMW-esque instrumentation.

Which brings me to my conclusions. The Volt isn't bad, it's clearly targeting a different type of consumer-- primarily a city driver that hopes to be primarily electric with adequate performance for gas hybrid use. GM's invention of a vehicle with multiple hybrid systems (two operating modes and EV only with performance) -- given time-- could be a game changer for the company. The power train, built in Austria, holds promise for future iterations. What struck me though was the CT 200 experience. It has been mentioned here repeatedly that the Prius is a 3rd gen system, it is, but it is also showing its age. Objectively, Toyota has been working on this for some time, but the technology leaps generation to generation aren't showing up in this most recent incarnation. The 200 is a polished Prius power train, and I'd encourage the Prius team to take note of what has been done, and work that into the line.

Since this article is on the PHV, let me touch on that. For 2012, after driving these vehicles, I coudn't help but think that the PHV system for next year though seems a bit dated. It seems to be a marginal step up from the current generation, but doesn't really offer the driver the performance and handling of the competiton's first generation system. The CT 200h seems to be a better start point. I'd encourage Toyota as I've said to look to that system and better battery technology with higher density as an alternative. It will be a necessity as by the time the PHV comes to market, it will be a crowded space, and Toyota needs to aim beyond start and stop 13 mile drivers. The Prius will have a clear advantage for extended range hybrid motoring, and it may well be the place they focus first.

One area where there is a gap with the Volt vs. Prius is financing. As of the writing of this post, the only Volt lease program -- 36 month term -- I am aware of was through a 3rd party bank, offering a money factor of .00025 (not bad!) but with a terrifying low residual of 44%. (While the Federal tax subsidy is in effect, the residual is influenced and netted upward.) A mandatory $2500 downpayment is required. It isn't clear if the $2000 promotional rebate being offered will be continued beyond this month and if they are accounting for it elsewhere in the lease deals.

In conclusion, I'm not going to say what others have said and state that the Volt makes the Prius worthless. I love my Prius, still. But I also think that Toyota needs to be a little less arrogant in assuming owner loyalty in an increasingly crowded field. From a constructive standpoint, let me say this: competition is a good thing for consumers. I know they have the know how to make a strong imprint in this space, and hope to see them continue do so.

 

1. Yes, THS/HSD is ageing. Perfected to the bone, 2 times 'til now, no other system has proven better than this when to efficiency is regarded. Old ou mature? Obviously mature. Constant ICE on and off without breaks, lumps or vibration is quite an achievement. As a full hybrid layout, is the slimest, easiest, cheaper, efficient and reliable system ever. Almost 15years now? Congratulations, Toyota!

2. Wow, arrogant. Testing 600 units to deliver the best product would never bring that to my mind. By the time PHV Prius is to the market, which competition will be in? Leaf, Volt? Owner loyalty is up to the owner. Myself as one, I definitely would not trade brand for other PHV [too much evidence of the best design possible, with the same lean approach]. For an EV like Leaf, perhaps, but still I would wait for a Toyota EV rumour (IQ will be produced soon, as for example).

 

Interesting analysis MattD. I have not driven either the Volt or the Lexus, so I accept your comments without opinion.

Perhaps .... perhaps, Toyota has made their highest priority (with the Prius) to be the most fuel efficient vehicle commercially available in the showroom. Certainly, they have achieved that (if that was their goal). Every aspect of the Prius hybrid system, ICE, battery pack, electric A/C compressor, aerodynamics, construction materials (extensive use of aluminum and high strength steel) low rolling resistent tires, and etc. seem to confirm a successful design solution to satisfy their corporate objective. To incorporate features from the Lesus, which they easily could do, would cost them fuel efficiency. I suspect that 50 mpg is somewhat like the "sound barrier." To achieve 50 mpg all the "tricks" must be utilized, and to deviate any one (like a higher top speed) will deminish overall fuel efficiency. Isn't that proven with the fuel efficiency of the Prius V where weight has been added?

 

That is the point. Within the limits of a package price, you get a plug upgrade. There's a sweet EV power increase and quite the MPG boost.

Mature is the key. There's no early adopter phase. It's ready for mainstream sales right away.

The "competition" isn't Volt, at least this expensive design. It will be other plug-in hybrid options, like Ford's upcoming C-Max.
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The Euro Volt's are variants for higher speeds.

Totally agree. I would rather have Toyota take more design risks than play it safe by adding on the the current line and spending it on derivatives such as the Prius Wagon (?!?).

 

How is delivering a $41k Volt not playing it safe?

It's much less of a risk having done that then shooting for the high-volume $30k price-point.
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No they're not. The Ampera used to be advertised with a top speed of 137mph. That's the maximum speed it would be possible for the 111kw motor to move the car at. Unfortunately my calculations suggest you would only get ~12 miles of range. They've since changed the advertised top speed to 100mph, since the 137 was clearly not feasible. When some german autobahns allow these kind of speeds and drivers do travel at them, advertising at 137 or even allowing it is a bad idea. Even if the genset started up as soon as you went over 100mph you'd very quickly drain the battery, and then be suddenly limited to 100mph. you would also then be in a bad way if you tried to go up any hills etc. as your battery reserve is empty, and the ICE is screaming it's nuts off to keep you running.