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Why such a big difference?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by adrianp, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. adrianp

    adrianp New Member

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    Hi all

    im 3 weeks into my already love affair with the prius, arnt they just great!

    i did a trip yesterday with was/is 2 miles main roads 10 miles motorway then 2 miles main roads and obviously the same back home. To be fair the route here certainly climbs more going but its not what you would call hilly,

    The question- Ive noticed the prius seems to have a larger variance on mpg than my previous cars on this journey, they probably were only a few mpg difference either way difference but the prius yesterday averaged 50 there and 71 home.

    its quite cold in the UK at the moment around 3 degrees c so possibly being cold on the outward didn't help, and of course its more downhill on the way home but its a huge % difference, so i was just wondering is there a prius specific reason why there should be a larger difference than in a conventional petrol car, has anyone noticed this before themselves.

    love the car its for life now!

    thanks Adrian, Cheshire, England, UK
     
  2. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Hey Adrian.
    There are multiple possible factors of course. One that jumps to my mind is that 14 miles is not a very long drive. It's possible that the engine was warming up for half of the drive there but already warmed for the drive back. Thanks to the thermos containing the preheated engine fluids, the return trip might have started with the advantage.

    That's just one of the myriad variables that will cause such a variance. I have no doubt that others will weigh in with others.
     
  3. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    In the UK we do not have the thermos but i agree that a warm return trip would make a big difference.
     
  4. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    One additional thing to keep in mind is that when dealing with higher mpg numbers, variation can appear larger than it really is. For example, a 15% change in mpg for a 25mpg car will result in a tighter variance than the same 15% change for a 50mpg car. The end result is still a positive savings in fuel regardless of the variation.
     
  5. adrianp

    adrianp New Member

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    thats a very good point which i hadnt considered thanks, i was comparing 38 to 45 etc etc before
     
  6. San-Francisco

    San-Francisco Junior Member

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    Hallo Adrian,

    Temperature has a big impact on fuell economy, especially on a hybrid.
    So in winter there is a big penalty on short trips.
    If your Prius is new, it also is at it`s least efficiënt, because it needs to be "broken in", the engine is still new and all parts need to wear in on another.
    I have a Toyota Auris Hybrid, yes, it`s made in the UK!
    Here in the Netherlands we almost have no hills, so most of the time it`s flat as a pancake.
    I have the car since October 28 and so far I drove about 3800 kilometers.
    And I notice a slow increase of fuell economy.
    Today I had to fill it up again, and for the first time my average fuell consumption was a little better than 20,2 kilometers per liter.
    Now let`s go back to your question, why such a difference?
    A Toyota Hybrid, No matter if it is a Prius or an Auris, is programmed to maintain the ICE at a given minimum operating temperature, and even if your battery is fully charched, the ICE will run in order to reach this temperature.
    You can notice this, because you can run only short distances in EV.
    It also does not shut down at stops for traffic lights, you must allready have noticed this.
    But when the ICE is warmed up, it will shut down at every stop you make.
    On the Toyota Prius Forum here in the Netherlands, I read about Prius owners who improved their fuell economy by blocking the grill.
    Also on this forum you can find information about the benefits of grill blocking, and it makes sence.
    The wind coming in through the grill cooles the ICE down on the outside, and as soon you drive in VE like it will loose heat quickly!
    Therefore I have blocked my grill, and I noticed the ICE warmed up a lot faster, and longer distances can be done in EV.
    But read about it elsewhere on this forum, before you consider to block your grill.
    It also depends on ambient outside temperatures, in summer the ICE and your inverter would heat up to much, in winter it would be fine.
    Greetings, and have lots of fun with your Prius,

    AEO
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    This also displays how optimised the Prius is and the key to that is a warm engine. If you park your car outside, that can be one factor (esp. if it's 3°C outside). Like Tony said, the return trip could've benefitted from the warm engine. 24km should be enough at 3°C to warm up the engine (I know 15km is barely enough at 0°C but that's on the older Prius without the exhaust heat recirculation system).
     
  8. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    It has suprised me just how hilly some areas are, and i never noticed in my other cars! Once you're used to driving it, have a look at the HSI. you'll see when going up even a small hill the HSI is a lot higher than when coming back down - it makes a big difference since being in the middle of the HSI gets you ~75mpg, and being 75% up it gets you 50mpg.

    Glad you're enjoying it! UK/Europe seems to be finally embracing the hybrid, they accounted for over 8% of all European Toyota/Lexus sales in 2010!
     
  9. GSW

    GSW PRIUS POWER

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    Simple, not really, but you had a tail wind going "home" and headwind going "there". :D
     
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    How much time was the car parked between legs of the journey? If parked only a few hours, the engine would use noticeably less fuel for warmup on the return.

    Also, how much elevation difference exists between the two ends? From my rule of thumb of 1 gallon of fuel equaling about 10000 feet of climb, a 400 foot elevation difference is enough to explain the difference you saw, without any warmup differences.
     
  11. adrianp

    adrianp New Member

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    hello thanks for your reply, the car was parked for 1 hour, the height difference from home at 240ft to there at 600ft
     
  12. adrianp

    adrianp New Member

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    yes your spot on in my previous car i never really noticed the hills, and the mpg didnt seem much difference hence the post.

    what speed do you cruise at on the motorway? do you use cruise c?

    ive been trying a few subtle different speeds, in the the wagons at 59mph it gives on a 50 mile run from crewe to liverpool it gives high 60's but at70 on CC its not that much lower, what's your experience

    thanks
     
  13. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    I don't do much on the motorway, but in the summer we did go down to cornwall. 60mph all the way got us 71mpg. On the way home we did try 70 for a bit and it was more like 60mpg. Cruise control and Eco mode all the time for us. Generally we aim to go everywhere at 60.

    Did you get the radar cruise package as well? that would be great for following lorries for a relaxing drive!
     
  14. adrianp

    adrianp New Member

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    yes i find Eco and cc on good for me and agree 60mph seems about right.

    yesterday i was late and had to get back home from Derby so sat at 80 and one point 90 briefly, she seemed to be really smooth and gave 54mpg which in the cold and at that speed i was quite impressed.
     
  15. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    Yep, even when you're pushing it a bit it's still way better than a diesel! What was your previous ride?
     
  16. adrianp

    adrianp New Member

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    it was a 318 touring (petrol) company lease car, they go at 3 years, did 40k miles, the interior was brilliant and it stuck like glue, but you were on your nice person on the ground in it and was useless in the snow. it averaged 39mpg so im happy to average overall in the first month and 1200 miles 60mpg.

    the other benefit in financial terms is the company car tax which will save me around 160 a month! but the economies and tax aside the car has many other benefits such as riding higher up, great and auto is heavenly in the traffic.
     
  17. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    Yeah i am stuck on Auto now! Will never bother with a manual again. There's a been a few people at my work running the numbers on the company car scheme, and figuring with a 2nd hand prius and 25p a mile for fuel they will be laughing. Both figuratively and literally at the guys stuck with X5's for another three years :)
     
  18. adrianp

    adrianp New Member

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    we get 14p a mile but 2500 towards the annual rental, the conventional route of BMW or Merc club laughed at me when i said i had ordered the Prius after 12 years of German cars myself it was a leap of faith, but im the one laughing now!

    i had one on Demo last summer for 5 days and drove it like mine and got 83 mpg on a 11 miles drive to work which staggered me, the same route driving possibly more careful and i get 64mpg, im happy enough with that but hoping it will improve with age and higher temps.

    perhaps the trip computer was tweaked to "over read" with it be a sales tool!
     
  19. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    The higher temps make a huge difference. last summer i managed a whole tank at 73mpg, and with the same driving i had a winter tank at 55mpg.

    I'm hoping with my PHEV to get tanks in the 90's this coming summer :)
     
  20. adrianp

    adrianp New Member

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    yeh bring on the warmth then, i was secretly hoping it was that!

    so you've ordered or got a plug in?

    ah i see underneath you've fitted an after market kit? is that DIY or pro fitting?