Piracy in Somalia

This is exactly the type of issue that should be worked out through the United Nations. Unfortunately, the failure to do so indicates that the UN is dysfunctional enough to need serious overhauling.

 

You could probably make a case for the justification of Al Queda in destroying the WTC.
You can probably justify just about anything.
But Im sorry ,its not acceptable behavior to kill innocent people.

 

Good point Tony!

Also we have some idle flat tops. Why not send a couple over there off the coast and let our pilots have real time bombing runs. This keeps their skill sets sharp, lets the pirates know we are serious, and we will not tolerate anymore of their crap!

DBCassidy

 

we need to blast every somali pirate out of the water. gonna look pretty bad if the US doesn't know how to handle pirates. This isn't a movie and there is no Capt. Jack Sparrow fighting "the man".....they need to know that if they intend to kidnap, ransom, and kill people, they themselves should expect death in short order.

 

And yet another.

Pirates seize Danish family, children - CNN.com

I don't really feel to much sympathy for these folks who put themselves and their families at risk by sailing into waters that are known to be dangerous. If you know the risks, and choose to take them and lose, shame on you.

Hopefully they make it out alive.

 

The pirates have been using hostages as 'human shields'. Our culture does not tolerate sacrificing hostages.

 

Paying ransoms at the suggested 150% might, granted just might please the Somali pirates, but here is where that idea goes very south, whats to prevent another poor country from seeing that and doing the same thing to gain their 150%. As it is now, other poor countries aren't doing it because of the warships trying to stop the Somali's, if the warships stop because the Somali's are being paid without piracy, seems like that would be an incentive for other poor countries.

 

Such is the nature of poverty and social problems. The "Haves" are free to ignore the plight of the "Have Nots", but they do so at their own peril when the Have Nots live nearby. If your mansion sits in a neighborhood full of unemployed inner-city kids, you have a problem. You have several options: 1) Stay inside and hope that your doors and windows can keep them out; 2) Use the police or mercenaries to clean out the neighborhood; or 3) Find jobs for the kids to get them off of the streets.

Which option you choose depends on a variety of factors, but mostly it comes down to money and morals. What clearly doesn't work is doing nothing.

Tom

 

The math is very simple. You have $100 and your neighbor has nothing.

Fact: Your neighbor will want at least $100. That's just human dynamics; social psychology 1A.

If he has no way to get $100 except by taking it from you, he's going to take it from you.

So you can spend some of your $100 building fences to protect it.

Or you can spend some of your $100 providing the means for your neighbor to generate $100 independently.

Or you can just hand your neighbor some part of the $100 and hope he's happy with it.

In NO case do you have discretionary use of the full $100.

Of the three, only the middle option has any long term stability, or has within it the seeds for increasing prosperity; the other two are just expenses that can only be written off, and have the risk of only becoming greater and less tolerable.

 

Which is true, but the have nots in this case, have no incentive, and won't have enough incentive to work towards a better future, if you pay pirates, you then create a have and have not situation in Somalia. If you set up a distribution system, which is highly unlikely, you still create a have and have not, because that would quickly be taken over by either pirates or criminal gangs.

There is no win win, the only win in this case is to shoot the pirates out of the water, at some point there won't be enough pirates to prowl the oceans, much like the Americas piracy days.

 

What is sad, strange and even funny in a way, is that there was a system starting to work in Somalia, but it was religious fanatical based, and the US didn't like it.

 

What should the people who were party to this state of affairs developing expect ? -- in your view of the world, of course.

Come on, grow some balls and take a little responsibility. This situation would not exist had western countries not destroyed the Somali coastal waters.

 

Actually its more then that though, yes the western, and I'll be it has a lot to do with Asian countries have a lot to do with that, but its more the Somalian people if you think about it, why aren't they rising up for a government that works, that would go a long way for the world community to help them.

Also, I remember this wonderful joke by Sam Kinnison:

 

How was the Americans that were killed directly responsible for Somalia becoming a cesspool? How are the Danish people currently held captive directly responsible for Somalia becoming a cesspool? It's one thing to attack cargo vessels and seize property - it's entirely another to kill civilians. That's what they are, you know - civilians. They are non-combatants. Ransoming property is illegal as hell, but I can sorta kinda see where the desperation comes from. Doesn't make it right, but property is insured against loss - the owner can weigh their options on retrieving it vs. writing it off.

Killing non-combatants is beyond excusable. It serves no military purpose but to inflame and enrage people - and it DEMANDS action. If they have a problem with the powers that be of America - then they know who they need to talk to, or shoot at. If they have a problem with Denmark's government - again, they know where to find them.

 

Really -- is spin your defense ?

I pay to have you shot and killed. Am I directly responsible ?
Heck, I don't even own a gun, and I don't even know the name of the guy that did you.

Too obvious for you ? How about this --
I pay fees to groups that wipe out people like you. I of course have no idea that you exist, so how can I possibly be blamed ?

 

In the beginning the "pirates" were just poor fishermen. But now it's organized gangs that have no qualms about killing. The problem has mushroomed due to the humongous amounts of ransom these thugs can collect.

Military responses have only driven these gangs farther and farther out into the ocean, making it even harder and harder to catch them.

Having said that, I still don't understand why there are folks who insist on recreationally cruising near these waters knowing full well the risks, and in the Danish case endangering their children as well.

 

Ooookay... so... it's justified because my country did something that was wrong? These people's lives are forfeit because their country or someone somewhere somehow tied to them did something wrong at some point to these people? You go back far enough, someone has always wronged someone else somewhere somehow. There are laws, rules, regulations, codes of conduct that govern civilized society - you cannot, and will not, get carte-blanche pass to kill whoever you believe you deserve to for whatever reason you felt you had at the time. Is that REALLY what your advocating?

 

Gentleman Please: I know a little bit about our modern torpedo's and their cost. Believe me you would not want to waste one of them on these junk boats that the pirates are using. My recommendation would be to do what we did near Japan during WWII. We know which ships are run by the pirates, what we need to do is board them, if they are indeed fishing...no weapons on board, they we leave them alone...any ships we find with true pirates on board, we remove them from the boat that they had, using small arms or small charge we sink this boat. Put the pirates into a life raft minus their weapons,,,show them which way is home......then let them go. We sunk their ship, took away weapons and injured no one. This is the way to go..!!!!!!!

 

And of course the big question I see is this, with all the high tech, sophisticated, super duper, futuristic, fancy schmancy, way over priced gear our military has, that can see for hundreds of miles, and we have no clue where these pirate ships are? Hell, we should be able to follow them from the coast of Somalia to the point of investigation easily.

 

I've been to Africa twice... once in uniform... and once to hunt wild game...

A lot of folks think the life that is Africa has a connection to what we experience in a modern western city... it is not.

A lot of folks think the desperation that IS Africa can change with words... it cannot.

A lot of folks think that you can't stop modern pirates, so why try... so we will not.




And that will mean that more folks will be taken by the pirates of the high seas... including those that come from Somalia now... until we get together with other Nations to rid the seas of them... and that WILL mean boarding ships again... so far... there aren't enough balls on the waters to stop what's happening... well, except for a bunch of the pirates...