CR knocks Volt, praises Prius

Prius tax credit was $3150 at max and then went through phaseout period.

 

I drive 48 miles highway and 4 miles city to work, each way, every day. At first I was bummed that an EV would not work for me, but then when I realized that I can charge it at work, I realized that even the electric-only Nissan Leaf could work for me!

With a PHV Prius, if they add a switch that allows me to control EV versus hybrid, I could drive on gasoline on the highway and EV in the city and only need to plug it in at night.

The Volt wouldn't work for me, but I'm sure there are lots of people that live and work within 10-15 miles from work that could send zero of their hard earned pennies over to OPEC.

 

here is a place you can run a few calculations, find out TCO. a few ran the Volt against the Leaf, granted its all guesswork, but after 15 years some were coming up with the Volt being double the cost

Electric Car Calculator

 

Actually it does matter. Why should GM be at a disadvantage with Toyota receiving subsidies from its government and GM should not?

There were and will always be 10x or more as many $3150 checks given out vs the $7500 checks for GM customers. So in this case $3150 * X > $7500 * Y.

 

The Leaf is a bargain. For people who get large state tax credits in addition to the federal credit are getting the deal of a century. If you can handle the range limits get the Leaf!

 

^OMG. A subsidy is NOT a bailout. LOL.

 

I stand corrected!

 

The calculator does not have correct electricity consumption and range. Per EPA, Volt uses 12.9 kWh for 35 miles range. The site has 10 kWh for 40 miles range.

 

That puts you in the 70th percentile of VMT.
Can't live any closer ?

That would be 50 percent. If workplaces include charging station, 80.

 

Did Japanese tax payers fund the production development of Toyotas sports hybrid 800 back in 1967?
Did Japanese tax payers fund the race development of Supra sports car in 80s & 90s?
Did Japanese tax payers fund the chassis development of RAV4 ?
Did Japanese tax payers fund the HSD development of Prius in 90s?

Answer these questions and then answer one more:
How do you know that?
Should the answer be like this: where is motivation?

Today all people around the world talk about saving environment. TV shows, movies everyone talks about it.
Back in late 90s when Prius had been developed environment was not in the agenda. That changed after Toyota showed Prius in 1995.
Also the Prius was a much highly risky project.
Shall I remind you that even when Prius hit showrooms after 1995 everyone was laughing at it with tonnes of "are they nuts" stuff ?
That alone proved that by that time society was more aware about toilet paper quality than environment.
Some rumors had been saying that, even inside Toyota there were people highly skeptical to negative on Prius.

So what was the motivation for the Japanese government to invest in the Prius project that looked totally wrong, crazy, ridiculous with unknown direction and highly risk?
Maybe they had so much money that would not aware to help Toyota emerge their crazy new landmarks? If that's the case generally, then why we people with IQ over zero are not living the rest of our lives in Japan? Sun exploration anyone?

It is also critical to understand that US tax payers via US government directly fund OM in order to heal them economically and help them regain some of the lost ground against Toyota.

At conclusion, no motivation, no issue..

Tax payers funded SULEVS not just hybrids.

Who's responsible for that?
Toyota because they developed "mythical" HSD, satisfying standards?
Honda because they developed IMA satisfying standards?
Detroit because they could not develop an affordable SULEV car ?
Europeans because turbo diesel even after two decays just don't satisfy SULEV standards?
CARB because they started the whole thing?
Prius owners, because they wanted a more enviromentally friendly car?

 

Q: Did taxpayers generously fund the purchase of monster-size guzzlers, like Hummer?

A: Yes.

That's an ugly part of history those attempting the downplay the fallout of Volt hope you won't remember.
.

 

sooo 100% have RT commutes within the Volts EV range?

ok.

wonder why states like Montana, North Dakota, etc have the lowest gas prices in the nation? mostly its because of the amount of driving they do. but they dont comprise a significant amount of the population, so if YOU choose to exclude them, that is YOUR choice.

i am not going to comment on such a ridiculous statement, but i want to know who do you work for?

 

I have read with interest all your comments: 10 mile commute; recharge at work; electric consumption/mile; and on and on.

To me the bottom line is the Volt is too expensive for [most] working people to own a dedicated commuting car. Not to mention that I have lived in New England, the South, and now the Mountain West .... I have known very few people with a 10 mile commute, and certainly not enough to purchase sufficient Volt's to make teh car profitable. That said, IMO, most people that can only afford 1 car, the Volt falls short for almost all other applications.

It is a one niche vehicle, and a small one at that: short commute; mild weather; flat terrain; day worker so can charge off peak. And, do not forget, the government tax credit is only available if you pay sufficient tax to deduct the credit.

 

one thing we do not want to lose sight of...the Volt does have a market. i work in tech support and i can tell you, DIY is simply not an option for a lot of people.

sure, you can put a battery pack in a lightly used Prius and get a car with the same battery range as the Volt for $10,000 less AFTER Volt incentives plus a car that gets 10+MPG in gas only mode. that is a given, but not an option for a lot of people.

they would rather...MUCH RATHER have it all done for them and many are willing to pay for it. they only want one 1-800 tech support number, one place to go, one thing to think about, etc.

now is this prevalent?? no. the cost is too high, but that does not mean the Volt will not sell, there are several thousand that will buy one because they can. i wont because (i dont have that much money!!... two new cars in two years is all i can do) its not the best option for my needs.

i simply dont want to do gas at all, but need a longer range vehicle with storage, so the Prius stays. (its also paid for!!)

 

Yep
And no one's crying that our FUEL is subsidized ... and under $4 ... while much of the world pays over $7. But subsidize an alternative type of transportation (or, god forbid, high speed rail) and all heck breaks loose.

 

I am a DIYer. I work on my house, work on my cars, and tinker with other things, but even I have no interest in making my own electric vehicle at this point as I cannot risk that amount of money and hassle. The volt will sell for the same reason earlier Priuses did: people simply don't care about the finances that much. Obviously a lot do. If the Volt was a net cost savings GM would have to change every plant to crank out two million Volts/year, but even with it a terrible waste of money it will sell cars. Just not to me, and not to most of us.

 

Don't forget about PNGV and the 80 MPG SuperCar - Tanking of an American Dream. Toyota got zero subsidies from it but GM did.

GM failed to deliver the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Precept"]Precept[/ame] but Toyota did with the Prius. The 2 mode hybrid was born from the Precept (PNGV money). Volt is using a simplified version of the 2 mode hybrid. There are so much of tax payer money in the Volt to develop it. There is also $7,500 tax credit at the purchase.

 

I wonder why does the Volt's ICE runs on super gas, why not on Diesel? That would improve the mileage on 'oil'.

There are also some 'dead battery' issues surfacing with the Leaf. Maybe, just maybe both GM and NISAN have pushed out these cars a bit too soon? However, I wish both GM and NISSAN good luck, even if the beginning may be a bit rocky. The car industry really needed a shake up.

As for now I would rather buy a Prius - for less money it is more car than either of the other two. A Prius PEV, once Toyota decides it is 'good to go'. This is what Toyota seems to do better; test, test and test, even it is drives us nuts waiting, waiting, waiting!

 

The point is that BOTH companies have received government money. I am tired of hearing that GM has taken tax dollars and Toyota has not. It is a lie.

 

You sound so sure. Do you have any source to back it up?