1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Red triangle/Check Engine lights came on on the freeway!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by seeh2o, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    447
    16
    0
    Location:
    City of Angels
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    I was on my way to work this morning when the car just stopped accelerating (or so it felt), all the dash lights came on, I pulled over to the side of the freeway (I was very lucky). Radio and a/c were still working. Powered off, powered on too soon a couple of times - the red triangle and check engine both came on again. Cooled my jets and gave it a few minutes, powered on and the red triangle was gone, but the check engine was still on. Drives perfectly, no problems w/either gas or hybrid engine.

    Tried to get into a dealership, they were all too busy to see me, so I drove to the place where I get my oil changes. He changed my oil, did a quick look at things and didn't see anything that jumped out at him. I should say that I trust this guy implicitly. I asked if he knew anything about the local dealership, he said he works with only one guy there and suggested that I make an appointment with him and he would be in touch with him. The service manager doesn't work again until Tues @ 10, so that's when I made my appointment.

    I've searched through the board to see what the problems could cause this. I saw someone had a clogged vent in the rear due to dogs. I have two greyhounds, not exactly big shedders and they don't ride with me that often. I also read about the water pump recall, I haven't had mine replaced yet.

    Any thoughts? Any thoughts on if it safe to drive between now and Tuesday?
     
  2. firepa63

    firepa63 Former Prius Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    1,761
    208
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I could be the failure of the inverter coolant pump.
     
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Since you lost power on the freeway, it certainly cannot be deemed safe to drive your Prius.

    You had said that the AC was still working. Normally if the inverter coolant pump has failed and the inverter overheats, the AC compressor will shut down (to shed load on the inverter) and the ABS, VSC and brake warning lights will come on.

    If you want to verify whether the inverter coolant pump is running, make the Prius READY and look at the inverter coolant reservoir. If you see turbulence in the fluid, the pump is OK.
     
  4. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    447
    16
    0
    Location:
    City of Angels
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    I went out to the car after work, opened and reclosed the gas cap, powered up and everything was normal. No check engine light. I still took surface streets, but weird, weird, weird.

    Patrick, so I just power the car on as if I were going to drive it and then open the hood and check the inverter coolant reservoir to see if the fluid is moving?

    ETA: I have a 2004 Prius w/123,000+ miles on it.
     
  5. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    3,326
    1,512
    38
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Umm...why did he not pull out even the most basic scantool and check for diagnostic codes?

    My vote is the IC pump. This is the most common Christmas tree event.

    Much of what you describe fits with an inverter cooling pump failure. Have you had the recall performed? If so, maybe the dealer screwed up the repair. The A/C compressor will stop when the IC pump failure causes a DC converter shutdown, but it may take a few minutes for the cold air to warm up. Waiting for a few minutes with the car off allows the inverter to cool down, and, if I remember correctly, three restart attempts will clear a triangle warning if the fault condition has disappeared.

    Did you power up the car and check the inverter cooling reservoir for turbulence?
     
  6. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    447
    16
    0
    Location:
    City of Angels
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    None of the dealerships in the area could take my car in until Mon, so I drove it over to the guy who does my oil changes (not a Toyota dealership), that's why he couldn't scan it. I haven't had the recall done yet, looks like it will be happening this coming week. I'll check for turbulence tomorrow. I have to street park where I'm live and can't see anything out there after dark (plus it's not exactly the safest thing to be doing in my neck of the woods at night!).

    Thanks!
     
  7. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    3,326
    1,512
    38
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    What I mean is that even the most basic Fisher Price scan tool will tell you want the code is, such as P0A93. It won't tell you the sub codes, it may not deliver freeze frame data, and it probably won't know what the code means, but it least it is a place to start. You definitely do not need to go to a Toyota dealer only to get codes read. The factory level scan tool (Techstream) is only necessary for deep level diagnostics, reprogramming, and actuating certain valves and pumps.

    Okay, I've been in some scary parts of SoCal and can understand the desire to wait for daylight -- especially when working on a Prius.
     
  8. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    447
    16
    0
    Location:
    City of Angels
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    Turned the car on, looked inside the inverter reservoir, the liquid was turbulent. Is it possible that the inverter is on its way out and works intermittently?
     
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Possible. An intermittent problem is tough to figure out. The problem might be the inverter, hybrid vehicle ECU, engine ECU, fuel pump, who knows.

    I suggest that you visit your Toyota dealer soon so that the DTC can be retrieved and a diagnosis provided to you.
     
  10. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    447
    16
    0
    Location:
    City of Angels
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    I was just told that the code that came up was POAOS and they can't find anything wrong with my car. The 12v battery is still solid. So why did my car cut out on the freeway? They don't seem to know. However, they want me to spend $515 (minus a 10% discount to fix the clicking sound that my shift knob makes...I've seen here on PC that I can DIY with some very good instructions posted by another PChatter). I told them to hold off on the shifter.

    I still want to understand why my car died on the freeway. It really scares me that they don't have an answer for me. Any thoughts? Advice?

    I may have misunderstood him when he gave me the code, but that's what it sounded like. I'm picking the car up in a few hours, so I'll get it in writing there. I cannot seem to find that particular code anywhere.
     
  11. northwichita

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    481
    102
    29
    Location:
    Wichita KS
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
     
  12. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    447
    16
    0
    Location:
    City of Angels
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    Back w/the paperwork. I did misunderstand the code over the phone. The code was P0A0F (not ending in S). The paperwork says: "Scanned and found code # P0A0F Stores. Engine Failed to start at one time. checked battery and charging system OK...reset and cleared codes."

    So, my engine failed to start while I was driving on the freeway at 63 miles per hour, per the data the computer gave them. Their attitude is VERY cavalier, they don't seem to give a rat's hind end about it. I'm pretty disturbed about their disregard. I've got a friend who is an accident investigator, I'm going to email him this info to see what he has to say. I'm going out of town soon, a 275 mile drive, I am not looking forward to it.

    What does ECU stand for?
     
  13. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    3,326
    1,512
    38
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    ECU == Computer

    P0A0F -- did you get a subcode? One subcode would indicate Abnormal Power Output. It is possible that you just had a bit of bad gas. I wonder also if you had your oil changed at a quick lube and they put in the wrong grade and/or too much oil. On the assumption of the former, just drive your car as much as you can, and see if the problem recurs. It really could be just "one of those things."
     
    SFO likes this.
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    ECU = Electronic Control Unit.

    Your car is out of warranty so you'll have to pay for whatever is done to it.

    DTC P0A0F "Engine Failed to Start". This code was logged by the hybrid vehicle ECU and the likely suspects include the engine ECU and the fuel injection system.

    Since the problem didn't happen while the car was at the dealership, they are not going to take action besides clearing the DTC. If you tell them that you are willing to start throwing money and parts at the problem, I am sure they would be happy to process a four-digit credit card charge.

    If the problem should recur, perhaps you might ask for the engine ECU and hybrid vehicle ECU to be reflashed with the latest firmware for your model year. That is much less expensive than replacing the engine ECU.

    I understand that you would not be eager to take a road trip with the car in its current unknown condition. I suggest that you keep your cell phone battery charged in the event you need to call for roadside assistance. Good luck.
     
  15. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    447
    16
    0
    Location:
    City of Angels
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    I just reviewed the paperwork, no subcode listed, just P0A0F. I don't think it was bad gas, I was about half way through a tank of gas from Costco. I don't go to a quick lube for oil changes, I've been going to the same place for years and I was due for an oil change.

    Here is what they did:
    Replace HV Electric Water Pump
    HV Electric water PU
    Super long life cool
    Replaced Inverter battery and refilled new coolant

    They also did the accelerator pedal recall.

    I thought there were only two batteries in the Prius, the hybrid battery and the little 12volt in the back, but it says they replaced the inverter battery. Does anyone know what this is?
     
  16. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,544
    2,123
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
  17. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    There is no such thing, so there must be a typo. Usually the repair order lists the part number and description of replaced parts. Does your invoice show this; if so please post.
     
  18. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    447
    16
    0
    Location:
    City of Angels
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    There is no code listed for this line. Here is exactly how it reads:

    "B. Check for open recall or service actions on this vehicle/vin
    Cause: as per recall
    0615L1 AON relace HV electric water pump - Prius
    416 W
    1 04000-32528 HV Electronic Water PU
    1 00272-SLLC2 Super long life cool

    Parts: 0.00 Labor: 0.00 Other: 0.00 Total line B: 0.00
    123474 replaced inverter battery and refilled new coolant"
     
  19. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    447
    16
    0
    Location:
    City of Angels
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    Yes, I am still on the original 12 volt.
     
  20. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,544
    2,123
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    You should change it ASAP. I can almost bet that if you run the test after letting the car sit overnight you'll find the 12 volt very weak.