Opinions, please: quality of Prius II's stereo?

I don't mean to put anyone down but I don't think any audiophile would think the stock speakers are worth a crap at all. The mids are very muddy and the bass is extremely disproportionate and loose. The frequency response is seriously horrible. (IMHO)

I bought the II for the great deal I was being offered but would have swung for a model with the upgraded stereo if I had the option. I plan to replace all the speakers and possibly the head unit later on.

 

The next level up (JBL) is no box of chocolates either .... you're better off with your plan ....

REV

 

I would love to hear your $1000 system, parts & labor included of course. List your components (HU, amps, subs, crossovers, wiring, etc.).

 

Thai,
How can you tell that your Prius sounds better than his, if you haven't even listened to it?

 

Are you referring to my comment with revhigh?

 

Hi Thai !

All I've done so far is replace the front door speakers and sound deadened the front doors, and just THAT was a HUGE improvement in the II's stereo system. I plan on replacing the head unit as well in the near future, and 'maybe' the rear speakers.

I was merely saying that IF I was going to spend $1000, I could put together a system that WOULD sound better than the JBL upgraded system in the III. I haven't done it all yet. To be honest, I don't think you'd even NEED to spend $1000.

I'm only basing that opinion on listening to the III's stereo when I purchased my II, and I wasn't impressed at all, which is the reason I didn't go to the III. I know I can get a great BT head unit for about $200-250, front and rear speakers for $100, and can easily get a sub and amp for WAY LESS than the remaining $700, and although I would install it myself, even with installation I'd have $500 to spend on a sub, amp, and squaker replacement.

REV

 

I helped my friend install a pioneer single din with ipod and bluetooth, new eclipse separates 2 way 6x9 and 6" in the doors, plus a alpine PDX4.100 100W x 4 amp for just about $850.00 with all the wiring and kit inlcuded. All that in a Prius II. With the help of ebay and some elbow grease, your system can sound 10x better than the JBL system in the Prius III.

 

And how is the tuning done? How is the sound field/stage? What you seemingly created is more confusion in the frequency production from the individual speakers. Where is the subwoofer to produce bass?

Eclipse separates 2-way...so, you have a 6x9 midrange woofer and a separate tweeter, right? So, i assume that your tweeter is where the squawker is? Tell me more about how you arrange your speakers.

There is a reason why midrange and tweeters are grouped together and pointed in the same direction in a professional system...the same reason why you don't see home audio speakers with midrange and tweeter pointing at 90 degrees from each other. Now, if you had said that you got your system tuned professionally with one of the newer DSP units (such as that from JBL or Alpine with Audyssey), then i am impress...but, by that time, you would have already spent well over $1500-2000.

 

I understand...but you have not address the full range capability that the JBL is capable of. Well, put a theoretical system for me together for UNDER $1000...you claim that you can do it...time to step up and prove it.

As noted above, a system with average parts but tuned well is far superior to a system with top-notch parts but tuned/setup incorrectly. This is from my old days as a car audio nut. So, no, i am not talking out of my arse at the moment....

 

Thai

You're making this WAY TOO HARD. You do not have to do this ultra technical 'tuning' that you keep referring to. It sounds like you read a manual from a car stereo company and are just throwing out terms. Tuning, sound stage, frequency production ... blah blah blah. Totally unnecessary ... a car is probably the WORST venue for a quality stereo system on the planet. If you put good components together, have enough power, and haven't done anything REALLY stupid, the system will sound pretty good.

If you think JBL did ANY of those things ... you're wrong. They produced a system to fit Toyota's budget specs with off the shelf components that would fit those specs .... that's it. Considering how the JBL system sounds ... I'd say the 'engineer' didn't know a thing about sound systems at all, because the system is vastly underpowered, which results in muddy bass, ill-defined midrange, and shrill highs. Those are the results of an underpowered system. The amplifier clips, sends distorted sine waves to the speakers, and the result is muddy and unnaturally boomy bass and highs that just sizzle your ears. A clipping amplifier is actually PAINFUL to listen to at any kind of decent sound pressure level.

I sold and designed high end stereo systems for many years, and I know that you just don't do the things that you are specifying. For a car, at the price ranges that we're talking about, all you can hope for is that there;s enough power to make the speakers sound 'clean'. If there's not enough decent and clean power, good results are impossible. As much as I agree that there is a 'sound stage' and that the sound stage has to 'image' properly, there is virtually no tuning necessary if the components are matched properly. Good speakers with clean power should need no 'tuning' as you refer to it. You should plug everything together, turn it on, leave the tone controls FLAT, and have good sound.

The standard systems are so poor that virtually ANY upgrade will result in better sound. Trust me ... all JBL did was allow Toyota to advertise their name in selling their thrown together components. There was no tuning, no sound stage analysis, and so on. JBL supplied a bunch of inferior/cheap components that hit the price point that Toyota allowed .... nothing more .... and the results speak for themselves.

Sorry dude, but if you think that JBL or Toyota spent all kinds of time custom tuning the system in the Prius, you're just mistaken.

None of this matters at all if you're happy with the system, which you obviously are ... so why worry what others think about it ? Just enjoy it as it is and don't worry about anything else. Most importantly ... don't EVER go to a quality stereo shop and listen to some REAL GOOD systems, because I GUARANTEE that if you ever hear a well designed aftermarket system, you won't be so satisfied when you get back in your car, and you'll be back here talking about the same things that we're talking about right now.

Enjoy your system as it is, and if others are intent on upgrading their system, let them do it. No need to keep telling everyone that the JBL system is so superior ... obviously very few others feel that way, so there's no sense killing yourself trying to convince others that it's so good when most others are NOT satisfied with it, and want to modify/replace it.

Enjoy your system and be happy, and let the tinkerers tinker !!

I'll keep you informed of my upgrades. Right now I'm almost decided on the Pioneer DEH6200BT, at a cost of $169 delivered, including the wiring harness and installation kit. With the replaced front speakers that would put me right about $220 spent so far, and the increase in sound quality will be immense. It'll take me about an hour to pop the new head unit in ... if that.

REV

 

My comments in bold above. I was too lazy to do individual quotes. This is a discussion, not meant to piss anyone off.

 

Note what is said regarding Camry's JBL amp:

•This amplifier first converts the incoming audio signal (CD, broadcast) into multiple channels, then delivers specific information to each of the JBL system’s loudspeakers, ensuring optimum audio imaging to each of the vehicle’s seating locations

•Each of the amplifier’s eight digital output channels delivers a varying amount of power to each of Camry’s 8 specialized loudspeakers, optimizing balance and enhancing tonal blending, regardless of the music or broadcast source.

This is why tuning is so hard with "plug-n-play" systems...you can't achieve this kind of DSP with most cheap aftermarket systems. So, although it may have 55watts/ch, it does not mean that each speaker gets 55 watts in the JBL system. The amp varies the power to each speaker as needed...but the overall power is 440 watts.

And if you ever sit in a Camry's system, you will appreciate DSP, as is the case with the Prius.

This is like the old folks who argue that they can do what ABS (anti-lock brakes) do...you can't because ABS controls each brake individually and pulses the brakes much faster than any human being.

For example, on my old '05 Corolla, i had a decent aftermarket system:
- infinity reference components front (1" soft dome tweeter, 6" midrange)
- infinity reference 6x9 coaxials on the rear deck
- JL Audio 300/4
- Kenwood WOOX as sub under passenger front seat
- OEM 6-disc changer headunit

Now, this is a decent system, right? Well, maybe the sub was lacking. Anyway, next to my Prius JBL, this aftermarket system is really bad. Sure, you can argue that the headunit was holding everything back, but my point is that a plug-n-play system is tough to get right...and the cheaper the price, the more impossible it is. Adding in a Cleansweep or another headunit is going to add cost to your system...and may not improve things much because the problem may not be the headunit but rather a lack of proper tuning. And no fiddling with "treble, bass" will fix that.

 

I think a person who is going to pay retail for installation and pay the installer to "properly tune" the system is going to pay $$$.

A person who selects his components and installs them might save money over purchasing the JBL system.

Many people think a system that plays loud, with heavy bass, is great. People looking for that sound don't need to "tune".

I'll repeat my previous point. SAT and FM won't give high quality sound. I think the JBL system sound good (not exceptional) with a CD.

My bad--this discussion is about the II (non-JBL). Listen to it. It's good enough for many (probably most).

 

Thai

You make some good points, and I agree with almost all of them. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the quality of the JBL system. We obviously have difffernent listening tastes and requirements. When I listened to the JBL I was sitting still on the lot, tone controls were flat, and I was listening to FM, not a CD admittedly. Also, since CD is clearly far superior to FM, I've found that the increased dynamic range of a CD shows even more dramatically a system's faults.

Good discussion !

REV

 

I hope that you will try out the JBL system with a good CD. Tell me what you think afterwards...I would be very interested to hear your views.


EDIT: BTW, you should NEVER judge a sound system by listening to FM radio, esp. in a Prius where FM reception just sucks!

EDIT #2:
BTW, this answers questions regarding JBL and whether there is any planning involved in integrating the JBL system into a Toyota vehicle:

"To ensure that the acoustic design of Toyota's premium audio system integrates with both the vehicle's electronics and its interior design, JBL collaborates with Toyota on the vehicle's design a full two years before its launch.
Hundreds of hours were spent by dedicated JBL audio technicians “voicing” the proper acoustic personality, based on design requirements and definition provided by the Camry product development team.
Each component within the JBL audio system is unique, with no off-the-shelf parts. Each component and audio system is optimized for each specific Toyota vehicle."

 

There is only way to judge if the upgrade was better than the Prius III JBL and that is what the end user thinks. Rest assured that my friend was more than happy with his setup then him having spent the $1000 more on the Prius III. You can talk of all the technical sound staging and DSP/ professional tuning much like I did in my Altima Hybrid with four four channel amps and all running active crossover. But to that users ear the system we install was a much better step up for that user cause it was taylor to his Jazz loving ways.

We installed the tweeters pointing about center of the car on each of the pilars near the squakers(poor excuse of a tweeter I mean). Not perfect but it did the job just fine.

 

Ok, so, that user loves the specific system that you installed. But, that does not mean that we should ignore basic sound principles either.

BTW, you listed your friend's $850 system as if it is a complete system for less than $1000. It may work for your friend, but it is NOT a complete system. There is no subwoofer in the system, nor an amplifer to power that sub. And where is the subwoofer going to go? Those eclipse 6x9s are not designed for bass...so, you have a system that may sound good up top, but has nothing down low.

I know...i am being too technical...but, your friend may have benefited from using a 6" round woofer over the 6x9s for better midrange. Jazz needs low end too, right? (I am not into jazz...so, i am not too sure.) If so, then he would have probably done better with 6" round woofer + a true subwoofer (Infiniti Basslink or something like that). Jazz, from what i hear, is tough on your system...so, the system needs to be a complete system to make jazz a truly enjoying experience!

 

To be complete.. Again subjective... User feels the system is complete much like how you judge the JBL system to be complete (which I don't think is complete.. Still lacking a sub). To each its own.... I love my dynaudio esotar speakers and Mcintosh amps as much as any audiophile, but there are those out there like my friend that find his system I install much more complete. (before you start, yes I have audison Bit One DSP that is performing all the magic of crossing over and time delay to each seperate speakers after endless hours with a realtime spectrum analyzer in my car tuning).

I agree we have to agree to disagree. Music and Sound quality is so subjective to the individual. My problems with the JBL system in the Prius are the functionality and cheap speaker components for a premium price. I want things like HD radio, GPS, DVD Video, and most importantly an interface that works when the car is in motion. Again this is a subject of my own opinions.. Very subjective.

 

Fair enough. From what i hear, Jazz specifically is very demanding on a sound system...a lot of people use Jazz disc as reference material to showcase their sound system, esp. home theater systems.

For the JBL system, although not very high tech in terms of speaker quality, it does get its job done for $1000 and proper tuning. It makes the best use of what it has...with 4 small open-air subs capable of hitting 29Hz (audibly), which is definitely low enough for music. (Home theater subs need to hit much lower and with more definition due to the demands of movie soundtracks.) The 4 other midtweets can go up to 16kHz, which is not all great but decent for what it is (aka a $1000 system). So, from a "theoretical" (or technical) point of view, the JBL system is fairly complete for music reproduction. That is what i meant by "complete."

Can the same be said about your friend's system? I guess that it does not matter to him. And add to that is the fact that your friend's system is NOT tuned to the car's interior and to multiple seating positions. So, although it costs $850, there are a few holes in the setup. And Jazz is quite demanding...so, i find it interesting that your Jazz friend is OK with it.

For me, the stock NAVI is easily outdated, which is expected...and not really the reason why i chose the NAVI system. I chose it because it is required with ATP...the USB connection...the rearview camera (i have 2 toddlers)...the awesome phonebook download with speed dial capability. For updated maps, i use a Garmin NUVI 775 with lifetime update...you can't beat that with any aftermarket headunit/NAVI.

DVD Video...i leave that to my reference home theater...no need to watch anything in my car, much less while driving.

My opinion. YMMV.

 

I agree with Thai, that the JBL system does include some impressive innovations. We had no choice but to get the JBL, as we wanted the solar roof package. I think that the system, while it does create a nice image & stage through creative use of the DSP, lacks the dynamics and tonal quality I expect from a decent aftermarket system. When you're trying to have a 6x9 cover all of the sub-bass, bass, and mid-bass, it's not going to cut it beyond a moderate output level. I also think that the squwakers leave something to be desired when it comes to the reproduction of high-end detail and mid-range impact. I'd be curious what kind of results would be possible by just upping the amp output by adding an aftermarket amp to say 75-100W RMS x8....playing over the same factory JBL drivers (and yes, I know, it would take something like an MS-8 to pull this off). My plan is to add an MS-8 plus a new amp and speakers & sub....it's just taking a long time to put the pieces together.