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JBL extreme sub mod.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by jburian, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. jburian

    jburian New Member

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    Just wondering if anybody has went overboard on a sub install (2 12's or 15's and 1k watts or more). I have been enjoying the factory JBL system. It is the best sounding factory system that I have had in a vehicle. It just doesn't have much low bass (under 40Hz). I am installing a couple JBL w15gti speakers with a gto24001 amplifier and an ms-8 processor. I will disconnect the rear door woofers and use the signal for the sub amp. Any comments on problems that I will face besides rattling plastic. :) .
     
  2. Thai

    Thai Prius Neophyte

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    Not a bad idea about disconnecting the rear door woofers and connecting that to the sub. The rear door lower woofers (6.5") don't really make much bass anyways. You are leaving the upper door midtweets alone, right? You need those midtweets for rear passenger sound stage.
     
  3. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    You don't need to disconnect the rear speakers to get the signal for the sub amp. You do need to make sure that the rear speakers are getting a full signal instead of one with a high pass filter (or otherwise modified signal) which sometimes happens with premium factory systems.

    Yes, i've ran two 12s (JL Audio, Diamond Audio, Orion) with a 1500w Diamond Audio amp and a Diamond D9 amp (400 w) for the front mids/highs. You definitely need to use Dynamat and other rattle fix techniques.

    I fried the big amp and have since dropped down to a 600w Arc Audio mini amp and single Orion 12 in a vented enclosure.
     
  4. LulzChicken

    LulzChicken Prius Enthusiast

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    I'm adding a 12 inch sub this weekend - and I'm going to put the amp in the trunk compartment. Any ideas for a good ground? Can I hook it to the battery ground? I herd that's not a good idea. There are several bolts holding the HV battery in place I could ground to - but I'm not sure if that's the best idea.
     
  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Use the negative battery terminal or where the negative cable grounds to the chassis.
     
  6. jburian

    jburian New Member

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    Yes THAI, I am keeping the mid/tweets in the rear doors. The reason why I am not using the rear woofers is because the ms8 has only 8 channels that it can process and I need the rear bass channel for the sub amp. I guess that I could install a crossover between the woofers and mid/tweets in the rear door and use them together on the rear mid/tweet channels. Though I don't know how aggressive the ms8 is at undoing the processing of the factory amp.
    As far as wiring the amp power and grounds. I wire big amps directly to the battery (fused) with as short of length of wire as possible. I haven't had a cranker car stereo in almost 20 years. LOL
     
  7. GeoGeek

    GeoGeek Member

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    The MS-8 will totally sum & de-eq the signal coming from the factory JBL amp. It will also then act as an 8-channel active electronic cross-over, time-aligner, and auto-eq....if you don't like the result of the auto-tuning, it will allow you to shape the sound any way you like. You really only need to use one of the 8 channels of output for input to your sub amp...you would then have 7 channels left to feed to separate amp channels for your mids & highs. What do you plan on doing for mids & highs? You should easily be able to keep using the rear speakers, either off of the MS-8 directly or the factory amp or an aftermarket amp.
    Can you tell I'm jealous that you're getting an MS-8? I've had my eye on one for months.

     
  8. jburian

    jburian New Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the assumption that the factory system has 8 speaker outputs coming from the amp to each speaker. If I use all eight of the ms8 outputs to drive each speaker individually, I have no more outputs to send to the sub unless I parallel off of the factory woofer outputs. From what I have read about the ms8, there is a time delay involved in the music from input to output of the unit, so I can't use the factory amps outputs to directly drive anything but the ms8. As far as my mid/highs, I am hoping that the ms8 will be able to analyze the current factory speaker setup and program a acceptable crossover point between the factory mid/tweets and the door speakers. It would have been nice if the ms8 would have had a dedicated sub output along with 8 channels to run each speaker individually. Or maybe I am asking too much. You can find new ms8's on ebay under $500. I would be glad to hear any more suggestions or corrections if I am not understanding you.
     
  9. GeoGeek

    GeoGeek Member

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    I believe that you are mostly correct. You would take all eight channels of output from the factory amp and feed them as input to the MS-8 (although a lengthy thread on DIYMA.com suggests that you really only need front left, front right, & sub as inputs and the MS-8 does the rest). You probably wouldn't want to run both the MS-8 and output from the factory amp to speakers simultaneously...the MS-8 would likely get very confused as to why it was unable to adjust the channels not coming from its outputs.

    The reason I asked about what aftermarket speaker setup you were planning to run was in case it used passive crossovers, in which case you wouldn't need to run all eight channels. My suggestion would be to run the front stage as two way active (using 4 channels of output off the MS-8) then use one channel for output to a sub amp. If you absolutely have to have rear speakers playing, you could either replace the factory drivers with a simple coaxial 6.5" in the lower door or run components using a passive crossover.



     
  10. jburian

    jburian New Member

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    I will check out the DIYMA site for more info. I would like to have the rear mid/tweets operational. Running components in the back with passive crossover sounds like a plan. I may even experiment with all 8 speakers on individual channels of the ms8 and just use a speaker to line converter tapped off of the rear speakers for the sub amp. I just received the JBL 15's today. They are massive. Thanks for the info.
     
  11. Thai

    Thai Prius Neophyte

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    Yeah, i would have the rear midtweets operational too...for the rear passenger's soundstage. Otherwise, the soundstage is too far in front...and the rear passengers will mostly just hear bass (from the rear massive subs) more than actual music.

    But, i think that GeoGeek has a good point about upgrading your front speakers. Since you're doing all this, it might be a good idea to go all out! Get a good component speaker...and connect the tweeter to one channel of MS8 and midrange to the another channel.
     
  12. jburian

    jburian New Member

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    I don't have people in the back very often. I was more interested in using the rear speakers for better surround sound with the ms8. I may buy component if I don't get satisfactory results. I just got the sub amp in today. 2 feet long with a 300 amp fuse.
     
  13. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Rear speakers make it harder to get a solid center image. With a good set of front speakers and power you really don't need rear speakers unless you just need extra volume.
     
  14. Thai

    Thai Prius Neophyte

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    Stick with 2-channel system...don't try to make it a surround sound system. The way JBL did it is right. This is why the rear speakers (midtweets) are low in volume/output. It is mainly for staging for the rear passengers...they are not there to provide much of ambience (or rear fill) for the front passengers, nor do they provide surround sound effects.

    Does MS8 know that the rear 2 channels are sending signal to the subs? Or will MS8 just think that the rear 2 channels are for rear fill?? Is there a mode to make the MS8 know that 2 channels (of 8) are for bass only? I need to read up on MS8!
     
  15. jburian

    jburian New Member

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    You guys may be right concerning the rear speakers and center stage. I have been out of high end car audio for over 20 years. We did not worry about phase response or good imaging. We just tried to equalize the peaks and valleys and use the best Lft,Rt,Frt,Rear combination for best surround sound. I actually used light weight stereo headsets along with the car stereo to get that center imaging. LOL. As far as the MS8's capabilities, I don't know. I will pick mine up at the post office tomorrow and see if their instruction book gives any detailed explanations.
     
  16. GeoGeek

    GeoGeek Member

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    The MS-8 treats all 8 channels the same way; they can be configured to output whatever you'd like. There is no predetermined output type for each of the channels.
    In a typical example: Channels 1 & 2 can be set up to run the dash speakers, 3 & 4 to the mid-bass in the front doors, 5 & 6 to run the rears (or "sides"), and then 7 & 8 to run subs.
     
  17. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    The new high end decks and processors have built-in digital time alignment. This allows you to set a time delay on each speaker as needed. I found that with my eXcelon KDC-X993 I only needed to set a 1.2-1.4sec time delay on my left front speaker to produce a decent center image. I had to reset the battery last weekend and the deck went back to default settings and the result was dramatic. I had forgotten how much the time delay helps. My tweeters are not in the stock location so your delay time will likely be different. :)
     
  18. jburian

    jburian New Member

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    I also noticed that You can select the crossover freqs and the amount of roll off (db per octave). It also looks like it has a serial port for future software updates. The box was bigger than I expected. I hope that it will fit under one of the seats.
     
  19. jdjd

    jdjd Junior Member

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    How did you wire in the amp? Straight to the battery? Are you concerned about a huge load like that amp on a little battery? Will the battery be drained quickly? Ive had several large systems and its always a concern. My current system {not in my Prius}has 2 JL Audio 1000/1 amps wired to a large battery with a large alternator and I can drain it very fast. How can the Prius keep up? I too have a 2010 Prius and am hesitant about a future install because of this. Am I missing something?
     
  20. jburian

    jburian New Member

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    Yes. I will wire direct to battery. Will probably upgrade battery to one with larger capacity. I am not wiring the amp for 2 ohm load, so will draw only 100-150 amps peak. The average current consumption will be quite a bit less than this. I do not plan on running the stereo for any length of time without having the car powered up. If I have too much problem with headlights flashing to the music, I can always add a second battery and current limit the charge input going to it (around 50 amp charge). I am not going to try to use the charging system to sustain 14 volts on the amp at peak current consumption. I just need to make sure that the battery has enough CCA not to drop under 11-12 volts. I am not using the stereo for competition. Hope this helps.