Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

Thanks for the graph, yes that is what I meant, although I was using 13 miles as my assumed "A"ER range on the PHV Prius, but the idea is the same. Also I used 37 mpg for the economy of the Volt in CS mode, you appear to be using 35.

Even using your assumptions we see the Volt burns less petrol than both upto about 80 miles traveled in a single trip and better than a 50 mpg Prius until about 115 miles traveled. That is about what I would expect and a result I am happy with regarding my use of the Volt.

 

I strongly disagree with this second graph. I routinely travel 50-60 miles a day without petrol use because of the work charging, it is fallacious to double the PHV AER range and not the Volt's, you end up bringing a whole host of assumptions that are not relevant about how far one commutes, etc... That is why I kept it to one extended trip. There is no question for shorter trips the Volt will always prevail on the point of petrol consumption.

 

^^ Feel free to add a line. Or four. I included the equations in an earlier post so that math-challenged folk can roll their own graphs using whatever assumptions and circumstances they care to include. My other reason for not plotting Volt double charging is the doubt of how much work charging is possible. I am confident in saying an extra 14 miles for the PHV Prius, but extra Volt range is a ymmv. Shall we use 4 hours of charge time a day ? 6? 8? 12?. Your situation is a good example. You take advantage of over one Volt charge a day but less than two charges. A Prius PHV in your hands would come quite close to utilizing 3 full charges during an 8 hour work-day.
11.2 extra miles a day for the Volt from work charging would be equivalent to 14 EV miles in the Prius PHV, assuming equal charge but 25% higher Volt energy/mile consumption.

 

Thats exactly why its meaningless, it shows no petrol consumption until after two PHV charges, in reality (and in my case), I'd get 13 miles towards work, then burn gas (at a higher rate) the next 6 miles until I could plug in. There are just way too many variables and assumptions for it to be meaningful.

 

^^
Seems easy enough to adapt to your specific case:
Let's count up the Prius PHV EV miles for your workday:
14 miles to work;
charging ...
10 miles to lunch;
charging ...
14 miles home.
Total 38 EV miles a day from the Prius PHV.

-------
You also drive 12 petrol miles on that kind of day with a Prius PHV, or about 0.25 gallons of petrol a day, one gallon a week. Then you have a long trip day once a week. I cannot remember the distance you mentioned, but on a 150 mile trip the Volt uses about 0.5 gallons more than a Prius PHV, so in total your Volt is saving 0.5 gallons a week compared to a Prius PHV. I'm just the technician supplying the arithmetic and graphs here.

My personal opinion is that there is no way in hell I would ever buy a ~ 37k car to save 0.5 gallons of petrol a week while spewing higher emissions and more carbon. Left unsaid of course is how much the Prius PHV costs, but that will have to wait for another day. For giggles, we can calculate that a price difference of $10,000 between the cars means that you are paying about $150 for each extra gallon petrol use averted.

This exercise does illustrate the tremendous benefit of work charging for the petrol-obsessed. It also shows that the 'tiny' Prius PHV battery capacity can approach Volt numbers in the right circumstances.

 

The data is easy enough to adapt but the lines on the graph mean nothing.

There is no point in arguing what the theoretical PHV might do once it exists in its production form, maybe next year we'll be able to compare brass tacks.

I agree the PHV Prius will be a wonderful and incredibly efficient car.

I appreciate and pay a premium for 100% EV driving, the PHV won't give me that even in it "EV" range. Therefore its not the car for me, to each their own.

You don't want to pay more to burn less petroleum, perfectly reasonable, don't buy a Volt.

I am optimistic that the nearby county seats that I have to travel to will someday soon add some level 2 chargers and then perhaps I can make those trips as 2 75 mile trips, rather than 1 150 mile trip and burn significantly less petroleum than the PHV appears likely to burn.

 

In addition, talking about AER (All Electric Range) in the (2012?) Prius Plugin is really a misnomer when the car is incapable of full EV over real world miles.

Unbolting the Chevy Volt to See How it Ticks - Motor Trend
Chevrolet’s approach permits full EV capability over 30-40 real-world miles—something Toyota will never be able to claim with its current Hybrid Synergy Drive system. As such, it represents a bridge between the gasoline present and the electro-commuter future.

 

Sorry, now you are spinning. It is not a question of more, it is a question of HOW MUCH more.

In your case the plug-ins available to choose from was the Volt only, so these calculations are not relevant to your decision at all. I think they do show that when the Prius PHV is on market it will make the Volt very expensive for the marginal benefit, certainly for people who have < 50 mile work round trips and ability to charge at the work place.

As for the '100% EV driving' statement, well that is silly when discussing the Volt. Both the Volt and the future Prius PHV will use both electricity and petrol, albeit at different times. I'm sorry, but I cannot help but laugh at people that buy a Volt to "drive 100% EV" and also use an ICE. I'm glad you like your car, but please refrain from rationalizing the purchase to the point of contradiction.

 

The car as reported will substitute 14 miles of petrol driving with electric driving per charge. I suspect most people will have to drive 14.5 - 15 miles to use up the electric range.

So I agree that a hair exists to split here, but it is mighty fine. I certainly do not care about the distinction, particularly when the elephants of price, reliability, emissions and carbon pollution are in the room.

 

They could call it MER - mostly electric range. It's true that at highway speeds or under heavy acceleration the Prius PHV will not be pure EV.

Gov has had a hard enough time coming up with window stickers for the Volt. I wonder if it will be trickier for the PHV since yes it can go to gas at any time.

 

I really am sorry that I am not communicating well here.

I really REALLY love all electric driving. The quiet and smooth, instant torque with no engine rev, only the pull into your seat to signal the powerful acceleration. There is really nothing like it (to me).

I drove a prius for 8 years, I thought I knew something about electric driving from doing it at very slow speeds and in parking lots and what not, and that was interesting and novel, but it did not prepare me for the first Volt test drive and accelerating from the teens to the 40s without the familiar rumble of the ICE coming on.

In a PHV Prius, if I floor the accelerator for that same electric rush, the ICE will come on like it did in my 2003 Gen I. When I get out on the highway during my commute instead of slinking silently among semis doing 70-80 mph, the ICE will be running, and 6 miles before I get to work the ICE will be on regardless of how I'm driving. Now thats not important to everyone, many would prefer the ICE on to improve efficiency or emissions or whatever, but it is important to me and worth the premium.

I recognize I will burn gas every week on my longer trips, but every other day of the week I can go 100% electric which is the best fit for my needs, desires, and budget currently available.

If Gen2 or Gen3 Leaf can get to 150-175 mile guaranteed minimum range I'll go 100% EV, until then, theres Volt. (For the record I am incredibly jealous of everyone for whom the Leaf is a good fit now and I wish I was one of them).

 

Yep

I doubt it. The motor and battery are good for 30 kw sustained I think.

Yep.

 

gwmort, you sound like a user--there may be a market after all for my electrode accessory. It will let driver's physically connect to the car as they drive and a small portion of the watts going to the motor will be circulated instead through their body.:focus:

 

Motor trend reported that the ICE in the PHV Prius comes on over 62 mph by design (something about the way it connects to the planetary gear set it would have to spin at that speed anyway so why not get power from it).

 

"I fight for the users" - Tron

 

Troll again.

Volt has a gas engine, which "can" run even you not floor it during AER. Even if it is to "refresh gas", or periodic start-up only.

Toyota is able to claim it has sold 3 million ENERGY/RESOURCES/GHG savers already. Only 1200 Volts sold, which has been proven to not (depends on the "greener" grid) save that much, is a bit annoying to admit, isn't it?

 

You are right, I forgot that detail.

 

The current HSD can't run past 62 mph without using the ICE. This is a mechanical fact otherwise the MG1 overspeeds.

Yes, the Volt can run the gas engine even when unneeded for propulsion, e.g. heating, periodic refresh, but it doesn't HAVE to.

The Volt is like the Gen I when it was released. So, yes, the Prius has contributed more to saving energy due to the sheer volume.

 

Too bad the Volt needs to compete with the Gen 3.

 

Gen1 Prius (SULEV) had lower emission than an Echo (ULEV). Volt and Cruze are classified as ULEV.

In term of progress in lower emission, Volt is nothing like Gen1 Prius.