Ford Implements Strategies to Lower Cost of Hybrids

Doesn't the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid use a licensed version of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive? If so, then using this as a supporting argument for the rest of the article is nonsensical.

Hybridcars.com should know this...

 

No ford does not pay toyota for any patents. They reached a cross licensing agreement years ago. Ford added emissions and diesel patents. Both companies base their hybrids on a trw patent and added similar patents on their own. Toyota's were more valuable hence ford included other intellectual property in the deal.

 

My bad ... Does Ford still buy the hybrid transmission from AISIN, or is the one for the Fusion completely in house?

 

I believe the fusion is aisin but the c-max will be in-house. I think they will convert the fusion to in house at some point. Ford complained that it could not make as many feh because of parts problems on psds and batteries. Toyota bought gen II prius psd from aisin but builds gen III in house.

 

bla bla bla, we had this discussion before... I bet they paid them for licensing. That cross licensing was just saving the face, as Ford has no diesel patents that rival hybrid ones, nor did Toyota change a single thing in their diesels.

Plus they buy most of components from Toyota owned companies for FFH.

 

It was only around 20, out of a couple hundred, patents that were involved. Plus Ford's hybrid layout has always been different than Toyota's

Ford brought diesel emission control tech to the table. Until market and regulatory pressure requires a cleaner diesel, Toyota doesn't have to make use of it.

Part supplier for the hybrid components may have been part of the deal, or Aisin may have simply been the only source out there that met spec.

Isn't the system in the Fusion the next generation, and free of patent entanglements?

Ford may very well have gave Toyota money, and licensing may be the technically correct term for it, but it is used by Toyota fans and Ford detractors because of the connotations. Saying Ford licensed Toyota's system without the clarification that was just 10% of Toyota's system is just to put what Ford down. Ford developed their own system in house, and have done so since the Supercar line of projects. Toyota just had the good fortune to get to the patent office first. It is a common story in industry and acadamia.

 

"...Ford developed their own system in house.."

Yes, using the same engineering team that gave us the TwinForce Gas-guzzling engine, now called EcoBoost to give them some minor semblance of being environmentally conscious.

And where is Ford with regard to the latest engine innovation, DI..?

No, Ford does not have the talent on board, NEVER has had, bright enough to come up with anything close to being as complex as the HSD system.

 

Ford bashers need to stop, Ford is on the move, they are innovating, Toyota is not right now, just comparing dashes on a Fusion Hybrid to a Prius and you can see it. I own a Prius, love the car, but Ford is bringing in new ideas, new products and is showing that they want to be the econo car king.

 

Let's just hope that 'Quality is Job #1' stays forefront in Ford's future.

 

I haven't had the chance to test drive a hybrid Fusion yet, and have no plan to buy one. But I hope their Gen2 hybrids will give Toyota some real competition in functionality and price.

As much as I love my Prius and would consider buying it again in the future, I'm not enamored with Toyota overall. Too conservative and unexciting in many ways. Not necessarily a bad thing, but just not quite my personal taste.

 

Planetary gearset of HSD and Ford Hybrid has the input and output in reverse.

The way Volt use the planetary gearset is just like the TRW patent but with 3 additional clutches.

 

The Ford Fusion (Mercury Milan, Lincoln MKZ) has poorer rear visability than the Prius Gen III, IMO. It does, however, have built-in blind spot mirrors in the side mirrors. Also the interior center console has a very poor layout. Again, only my opinion.

The automatic transmission has one of the longest lags I've ever experienced. Instant power it is not.

Check it out on your test drive.

 

IIRC, Ford licensed the Toyota patents around the time the G2 came out. So yeah, Toyota won that race -- by about 5 years. Notice how no one ever points to Ford patent apps related to hybrid cars in 1996, 1997, 1998 ... that were eventually denied because of Toyota IP ?

AG likes to point out that the PSD and e-CVT were prior art to the Prius, but he ignores the rest of the HSD covered by about 200+ odd Toyota patents.

 

And that's why Ford just announced it's highest earnings in ten years.

 

Instead of being elitest about the Prius why not applaud Ford for realizing this is the way things need to go?

I cannot wait for the EV Focus, it should be a hell of a car. Also, hybrids at no cost premium and you guys are arguing semantics? Come on, turn the bias off for a minute.

At least they aren't claiming a gazillion miles per gallon hwy only or 700 mile gas tanks (300 gallon tank + trailer carrying another 100) like Chevy has been.

 

The upcoming C-Max Energi (plugin) looks very interesting. We'll see how much it will cost.

 

I'm just trying to put this old misinformation to bed. Ford is not paying Toyota right now for any hybrid patents. Toyota has paid Ford more cash for patents than Ford has paid Toyota. Ford gave toyota patents instead of cash for some toyota patents, which is barter. I'm not sure why the licensing continues to get misrepresented.

Prius was the first car to usefully adapt the ideas in trw patents and they patented every genearic idea as well as inovation. That does not mean toyota got a bad deal in the licensing agreement.

I wasn't trying to be part of a ford versus toyota pissing contest. I'm not sure why the fanbois think ancient history means ford is paying toyota money now.

 

Neither you or I know the complete licensing deal. I do not know why you represent the situation differently.

 

Get used to his "know it all" attitude.