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The Story of, "The Perfect Vehicle"

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by UGC, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. UGC

    UGC Member

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    If you the CUSTOMER were to tell an Automotive Engineer to design you the perfect vehicle, what would you end up with? Well, these are my thoughts, and I am curious what yours are.

    Let's start with the 3 main fuel savers on the market now. Each have their on +'s and -'s; Prius, Volt, and Leaf. I think the Prius is an outstanding vehicle, but it's not EV (not yet), the Volt doesn't do great in either category (EV/Fuel MPG), but is a great starting point for the future, and the Leaf, is super for around town, but what about the long trips?.....and this got me thinking...."I believe I can do better". So, here we go:

    Body Style: Stick with what works, I pick Prius. Good aero design, and plenty of room for your cargo.

    ENGINE: EV only. No gas engine on board.

    Battery & Range: "NEW IDEA" Make the standard a 50 mile EV range. Sell ALL EV's with an entry 50 mile range. Let the customer buy extra batteries after the purchase to increase his/her range to meet their personal needs. The factory design would have to have a larger battery compartment to house extra batteries, up to a certain limit (maxed out battery compartment). My feel on this would be around 150 EV miles could be the standard using todays battery technology.

    Heater/cold climates: "NEW IDEA" DO NOT USE THE BATTERY for heat. Instead, install a separate container under the hood for propane, natural gas, or some other heating fuel. This will be the heat source for all heating needs. Container needs to be removable for when winter is over (no need to carry around the extra weight when not needed).

    Charging: Standard regen braking with quick charge available.

    EV Range Extender: Have a trailer hitch as standard equipment, and you could fix the "Long Trip Problem" one of two ways. Have a platform constructed to hold a small generator along with the fuel tank that simply mounts into the trailer hitch, plugs up to the vehicle via the wiring harness, is computer controlled, and gets its information from the vehicle when to start/stop. The second option is the same, but instead, mount all hardware on a small trailer that you would pull behind you for long trips only.

    I feel this is the best idea, because when you are NOT taking long trips, you are not carrying around the extra weight of the gas engine + the fuel it uses,.... which = more mpg a greater percent of the time.


    Now, if the above vehicle were on the market today, I think it could replace everyones "Standard" vehicle.

    Advantages of my vehicle vs:

    Prius: My vehicle wins. Less money spent on engery (better MPG/electric equivalent). No fuel needed in most cases, except on longer trips.

    Volt: My vehicle wins, if all things were equal because I am not carrying around an ICE everywhere I go (Greater MPG because of less weight). And since there is no ICE, my vehicle's base MSRP should be a lot less than the Volts.

    Leaf: This one is close, but with my heater design, my range should be better on EV. Also, I have the optional EV Range Extender. So, my vehicle wins again.


    So, this is the vehicle I want to purchase. What are your thoughts?
     
    #1 UGC, Apr 27, 2011
  2. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    I'm with you on the good aerodynamics, but you lost me after that. I can't stand trailers. And fossil fuel? That's so last millennium. :)

    I'd ask the engineers to design a feather-weight slow-release capacitor to provide storage of electrical energy. A very small electric motor would drive the single rear wheel and convert kinetic energy through regenerative braking. The pedals would drive the single front wheel, and the custom-fit seat would recline just enough to let the rider see over his knees. The frontal area would be tiny, and the tail cone would be just large enough to hold a few litres of water, some ultra light camping equipment, and a couple of days worth of food. The whole thing would be built of hemp or some other totally organic, renewable material - no metal or plastics.

    Heater? You're not pedalling fast enough. :p

    Hey, you asked. In my imaginary perfect world, the car of the future is a bicycle. :)
     
    #2 hyo silver, Apr 27, 2011
  3. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Ideally I would have an onboard ICE (diesel or petrol powered) that is sufficient to propel the car + 4 adult passengers up a 2% grade at 55mph with 10% overhead in a series hybrid mode. That way you can "limp" home anytime or go for a long drive at 55.

    I would make it a hatchback like the Prius, or radically different like the Tesla. If a hatchback, I would make it wider and lower. Wide enough to fit a 4x8 sheet of whatever flat in the back with the seats down. Lower stance to look more aggressive.

    Modular batteries are a good idea. It seems like the seats are made with standard springs or something. Replace the "structure" with batteries and line with gel caps then foam for comfort.

    Also equip supercapacitors in addition to the NiMh traction battery, and LiFePO4 EV range batteries. The supercapacitors should be able to accept a charge from the vehicle's regen braking system starting at 55mph decelerating to 0 mph. Regen braking system should be sized to allow such high amperage brake bursts.

    The NiMh does the deep charging and discharging for acceleration and is slowly charged back up by the lithiums and with excess regen.

    It would use 4 pancake motors in the wheels to achieve 4WD and 4 wheel regen. It would also have 4 wheel active steering. I would also make the steering full steer-by-wire. Allow RHD/LHD switching by pivoting across the dash. All speedo controls are mounted on this pivoting arm so the controls move with the steering mechanism.

    Those would be the small things now.
     
    #3 2k1Toaster, Apr 27, 2011
  4. UGC

    UGC Member

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    No trailer needed, You know those platforms that hold an ice chest that mount into your trailer hitch - I am talking about something like that. Instead of an ice chest, a generator. But something that can be removed, so for 95% of your needs, you can leave the generator at home.

    And from my understanding, the heater is what kills the battery real fast in an EV, so setting up something separate, that would run off propane, seems like a better alternative than what is available today. Take a few notes from the RV side of the house, most things in a RV run off propane. And the key here is, you would NOT be using it that much unless you lived in the Northern states, and then, mostly in the winter. Think Global.

    And the reason for the 50 mile standard EV range, with option to upgrade is simple.Marketing. The big problem with the Volt is the upfront cost. As battery technology gets better, the price should come down, having a standard entry level EV should help more people adapt from fossel fuel.

    And keep this in mind, if the Volt did not have an ICE, I would bet the EV range would be around 50 or more, plus, the MSRP would be cheaper.

    Maybe my logic is wrong, but that is why I started this thread. I believe the combined thoughts of many are better than one.
     
    #4 UGC, Apr 27, 2011
  5. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Hopefully. :)

    Maybe I'm just coming at it from a different angle. I think reducing our oil dependency has more to do with urban design and enabling walking and cycling than it does with the design of any particular vehicle. The human body already has a fifty mile 'EV range', with practice, and it recharges overnight. 'Plugging in' is optional. :p
     
    #5 hyo silver, Apr 27, 2011
  6. Ryanpl

    Ryanpl Active Member

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    I'd want to have a flux-capicator.
     
    #6 Ryanpl, Apr 27, 2011
  7. tonyrenier

    tonyrenier I grew up, but it's still red!

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    Heater/cold climates: "NEW IDEA" DO NOT USE THE BATTERY for heat. Instead, install a separate container under the hood for propane, natural gas, or some other heating fuel. This will be the heat source for all heating needs. Container needs to be removable for when winter is over (no need to carry around the extra weight when not needed).


    I'd have a problem with a heater burning a combustable fuel. In college one of my friends had an original Beetle (about a 61/62). One cold night he fired up the Propane fueled heater only to discover that the heat exchanger had rusted out and flames came pouring from the vents. Yikes!
     
    #7 tonyrenier, Apr 27, 2011
  8. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi All,

    I have commented on the fuel heater many times. Now, cars burn fuel and generate heat, without gassing people. So do home furnaces. It can be done. But, its not going to be done with 1940's Beetle technology. Probably something like a household hydronic system could do the heating. This puts two heat exchangers between the flame/CO and the people.

    The LEAF could be made perfect, with a winter trailer. That had the heater, and and an auxiliary generater (Combined heat and power).
     
    #8 donee, Apr 27, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    super high efficiency solar panels. batteries for cloudy days. it could happen.
     
    #9 bisco, Apr 27, 2011
  10. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Rather than overfocusing on the heater, a material change that allows near instantaneous removal of all ice, frost, and haze on the windows would be even better. This would allow using the battery for "driver comfort heat" rather "melt the car" heat.
     
    #10 FL_Prius_Driver, Apr 28, 2011
  11. SlowTurd

    SlowTurd I LIKE PRIUS'S

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    there will never be a the "perfect" vehicle



    people will always find something to bitch about
     
    #11 SlowTurd, Apr 30, 2011
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