Toyota gets 25,000 pre-sale orders for Prius Alpha in Japan

It was exactly my point: the passengers. Prius v would make perfect sense if it were occasional 7-seater, like Mazda-5. As 5-seater it has exactly the same accommodations as standard Prii with 50% more luggage space.

It cannot appeal to soccer moms with 3+ kids the same way as an SUV or minivan, only to those who look to downsize from mid/small SUV. And as such is it really better then Jetta Sportwagen TDI? Ford C-Max Energi/Hybrid?

IMHO as soon as Mazda releases SkyActiv-G Mazda-5 and people realize that it gets the same MPG as Prius v, what would they buy?

 

I'd rather see Toyota develop an HSD Sienna than a Prius v, to be honest.

 

whats the difference?

 

The Toyota, because it is a Toyota.

 

+1

 

agreed

 

how is Mazda 5 going to get combined 40 mpg?

not to mention that you are saying that Avalon has no appeal over Yaris, because they both have 5 seats.

 

read about SkyActiv-G and SkyActiv-D.

Japanese Demio (Mazda-2) has better MPG then Prius (70 US MPG, <3L/100km) without hybrid.

Prius v and standard Prius have exact the same passenger dimensions.. apples to apples.

 

Prius α consists of both 5 seater and 7 seater. Prius v (US) is the 5 seater. Prius + (EU) is the 7 seater model. 25,000 pre-orders are for both 5 and 7 seater models.

 

Why bother? It would probably get worse mileage than the HiHy's 28/28 and consequently sell as badly.

It makes much more sense to go with a more efficient platform that can sell globally.

 

70mpg < 89.4mpg

 

2011 Highlander 3.5 V6
non Hybrid 18/24 4265 Curb weight
Hybrid 28/28 4762 Curb weight

2011 Sienna 3.5 V6
Non Hybrid 18/24 4460 curb weight
Hybrid ??/??

I am not seeing a lot of reason to suspect a hypothetical Hybrid Sienna will not get the same 28/28 of the Hybrid Highlander. The engine is already developed. (Unlike the 2.7 I4, which has never been hybridized and would be VERY slow, but might get 30/28)

Toyota would have to find room for batteries and power train in a design that did not contemplate them. If it reduces the number of seats, the wailing will commence.

 

Higher driving position, more rear legroom, more headroom, extra cargo space. If you think that's insignificant ask yourself why the Kia Soul is now selling 10k per month and leads the B segment.

If you were paying any attention to sales you'd know that a lot of people are looking to downsize for economy. But gas is still cheap enough for people to shop utility, which is why the crossover market is so strong. The Prius v is a way to increase utility and Toyota have looked at the market, seen crossover, wagon and van sales and seen that the Mazda 5 has done nothing and gone for the next step up from the Prius. Given that they're going for 3 rows everywhere else in the world, I think Toyota have done their homework and figured that in the US market a 7-seater would have less impact.

Also, if you think that only people with 3 or more children buy minivans you are mistaken. Read this: New Cars 2011: What to Watch for in Minivans - CBS MoneyWatch.com

As for the Sportwagen TDi, I would ask why people would go for a vehicle that costs a bit less, but has the same cargo space, is from a manufacturer with a much worse reliability record (and that is also notorious for the high cost of repairs), has a worse fuel economy rating (29/39) and uses a more expensive fuel. The Sportwagen TDi sells because of its combination of economy and cargo space and once the Prius v enters the market, it will lose a bunch of sales to the Prius v.

If they manage to bring it to market and it delivers as promised then it'll be successful (although the SkyActive-D is much more interesting). Until then the Prius v won't have to compete against it.

 

When using mileage estimates, you need to use the same agency's methodology for both cars. The Japanese 10.15-mode estimate for the Prius is 89.4 MPG.* A similar but less pronounced effect occurs when quoting the English or European test numbers, they do not use the same test or the same gallon.

Using the US EPA test, the Mazda2 gets 29/35 with a manual or 27/33 with an automatic. With the only engine that passes EPA emissions, it is much less than a US Prius, but even the specialized Japanese engine is over 15 MPG less than a Japanese Prius.

Mixing the test results will result in untruths.

*http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/04/japanese-makes-will-rejoin-fuel-sipping-battle.html

 

Frankly, I think Toyota won't beat Honda in the minivan space no matter what, hybrid or not, so they might as well go on with their Prius strategy instead.

 

those are 10.15 numbers

 

Mazda SkyActiv-G Demio prototype 10.15 number = 30km/L (70.6mpg) JC08 number = not published
Toyota Prius 10.15 number = 38km/L (89.4mpg) JC08 number = 32.6km/L (76.7mpg)

Ken@Japan

 

i doubt that more than 30% of those are actually 7 seaters... price is way too high.

 

How do you relate very small car to Prius? (and btw it doesnt have same mpg as Prius, and also there is Daihatsu small car coming out with 31km/l)

Mazda already announced mpg for their SkyActiv Mazda3 - it is 28/38 for hatchback.
What is that, 32mpg?

At best, Mazda5 with same powertrain will get those numbers... it might lose 1 mpg or so... which makes Prius V 30% more efficient. Not bad, eh? Should be a lot more in the city too.

 

p.s. We have had small MPVs in Europe for very long time now. And for past 5-6 years, we have had 7 seat versions.

For instance, for Toyota Verso has 7 seat version at $1500 premium.

I can tell you that very few people pay extra for small 7 seat MPV.