May 21, 2011. The date of the Rapture.

When I visited Costa Rica, our tour guide told us how Costa Rica doesn't have an army because "No one will want to invade Costa Rica".

 

Ok you win.

Christianity is third on the list of most atrocious institutions.

 

Religions are just political parties. They gather up lots of money for their leaders who preach that their followers practice morality while being immoral, while deceiving people that they will be saved with large enough donations. They are hugely influential and wealthy.
The advantages that religions have are that they are multinational so they have a longer reach for larger incomes than soveriegn nations and they are infallible because after all, god is infallible. Their laws are tougher too. Break one and you go to hell. (By the way, what ever happened to the Friday meat eaters of the 50's. Are they still burning, or did they get bumped up to purgatory when the laws changed.)

Bottom line, just another political party, exerting influence, making leaders wealthy, taking advantage of followers by threats and fear and not following their own rules.

 

I thought you all might enjoy a peek at these pictures. Sorry for quality but my phone is OLD! These guys have been driving around Brooklyn.

 

Sorry to disappoint... didn't realize this was a popularity show.

[edit] you are right though, it does not matter how many times a person with a harden heart reads the word, it will never make sense... so why suggest they read it. They have to get right by the Father first before it will make any sense.

It sounded like Toaster had read it before, I was just suggesting he read it again with an open heart.

It is kind of analogous to a person buying a Prius. They can surely get in it at the lot and pretty quickly figure out how to start it and drive home. Certainly if the owner gets a run down of how things work by the salesperson (missionary/evangelist) things can go a lot smoother and finally if they read the manual (Bible) through, they are much more informed and are likely to make less costly mistakes and have a more enjoyable ride. Sadly some will never attempt to open the manual as they figure it is just too complex or they think they know it all. Some of those will come to places like this site and sometimes get the correct answer and sometimes not, it all depends on who answers the question.

 

They misspelled "judgment."

 

My wife's boss informed them that they can have next week off, fully paid, if the world ends Saturday.

 

You are emoting, not reasoning and it does not suit you and others well.

What I prefer far more than "winning" is a return to the past few months when flaming on beliefs was avoided, particularly Christianity.

 

But I haven't mentioned beliefs. I am discussing institutions.

I am curious where on the list of most atrocious institutions in the history of mankind, you would prefer to see any institution which many people look to for moral guidance?

For myself, that place is 'not'.

 

You involved timing (over a span of X time vs Y time) in your reasoning. I drew the same conclusion. It is ok to murder millions as long as you do it over a long enough period of time. If this is not your intent, please clarify without using timing.

It definitely up there when it comes to blights. There has been good done, and there continuous to be good done because of it. But there is a reason why all fictional advanced civilizations do not have a god or many gods. Oh how I would like to live on Vulcan.

And estimates are 900million killed by religious wars over time... 17 million is the high estimate for the nazis.

I adamantly beg to differ. Please open your good book to any of the parts I cited above. Specifically the sections on killing anyone who does not believe what you believe and destroying and burning an entire town if even one person doubts the existence of your lord. They are better Christians than you because they followed the word of god directly, no dilly-dally. The practiced EXACTLY what was preached. Therein lies part of the problem.

It doesn't still yet have to be proven. It has been proved. Much like the earth was proven to revolve around the sun yet scientists and followers were put to death for believing it. The proof is there, the conclusions have been drawn, the rest of the logical world is just waiting for reality to catch up. And it is. Polls find non-theists to be in greater numbers than ever. I guess that's a sign of the rapture too eh?

There is a public poll every 6th Wednesday and we choose a favourite.

While I understand this argument (and hear it often) I don't understand the meaning. Is there secret ink that redacts parts of the book that are violent and murderous once you believe? I thought the point of the book was to spread the word. If the book can only spread the word to those that already believe, then how's that work?

It is a big book, multiple readings are not likely.

But can you (with an open heart) please explain the following to me then, or at least how I or someone else is supposed to interpret this once our hearts are opened:

Isaiah 13:15-18
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

To my closed heart that sounds a lot like rape and pillage. And death to babies, specifically by archery! I guess little people are more sporting with arrows since it is a smaller target?

But the difference is the Prius doesn't burn you if you don't open the manual! Or maybe that was what sudden unintended acceleration was about?

Ok we will keep our flaming to only Islam? Would that be more satisfactory...

And I don't find his arguments to be emotional, but I know mine are not emotional. Please try to find logical flaws with mine.

When something is as prevalent (for whatever reason, good or bad) it must be talked about. It is also common for those with weaker arguments to suggest the subject be dropped in hope of not exposing the fragile foundation within.

 

Saw this last night too - as soon as the argument goes weak - shift it....2k1Toaster shifted yet again as I was posting this.

Since it was not addressed as an institution, I'm not buying that was the context.

This is just an attempt to throw anything and hope something sticks.



Way back earlier in the thread I mentioned my disappointment a small group of people are setting a date for the Rapture as it's directly against the teachings of Jesus, plus they make a convenient cherry-picking for some to attack Christianity.

I doubt anyone on this thread has approved the group setting May 21 as the Rapture date.

 

Yes, you certainly are shifting the argument. I will reiterate my question:

I am curious where on the list of most atrocious institutions in the history of mankind, you would prefer to see any institution which many people look to for moral guidance?

 

Please post how I did that. My post is relevant, on topic, and logical.

 

Perspective

No, Christians (followers of Christ) are to "Go" and spread the good news. The individual makes a decision and then uses the Bible as a guide for an abundant life.

Bummer.

But you would have to agree with me if a person grabbed or cut into those orange wires they very well could be fried.

If you wish to make a Bible study out of the scripture you pointed out I would be happy to. I have done it with a few others here on the site.

 

Ok... I don't see any humane perspective for any of the parts I have sprinkled.

Indeed.

Yes, but the person cut those wires themselves. Darwinism.
The Prius did not actively pursue and destroy those that did not read the manual.

I am one with an open mind (apparently closed heart though ) so I am willing to see your perspective. Since Isaiah 13:15-18 was the most recent, why don't we start there. What's the hidden meaning? Can you at least admit that for those with "closed hearts" or more logically an "outside perspective" it seems a wee-bit violent and harsh? I honestly am interested in your explanation.

 

Religions must be hobbies. People are very passionate about them, spend lots of time with them and tons of money on them just to make themselves feel good.

 

argh, double posting.

 

2k, I'll help you out.
Scripture is scripture, except when it is reverse scripture. Every one of the faithful know which is which, and all disagreements simply mean the other guy is lesser, in the sense that obviously everybody else does not hear the *true* message. It is not by chance that christianity has so much blood on its hands. After all, it is quite easy to conclude that everybody else are either evil or corrupted by the devil. Why else would they oppose the 'truth?' Cleanse the world of evil, and excise the devil. Got it ?

The Catholics have the hardest job, since they are supposed to view all the popes as infallible. At least the other christian sects get to brush off their violations against humanity as 'misinterpretations.' To my knowledge Catholics have never asked themselves what weaknesses in their ideology and institutions allowed the inquisition to occur. Oh no, that would not do at all. And anyway, that was then, the catholic church is closer to god these days. At least that is what the priests say. The women and children raped by the priests and silenced by the church may have a different opinion.

I do give the churches credit in one regard though: they have become masters at excusing their own abuses. I particularly like the 'this is a test of our faith' line. It is the best get out of jail free card of all time. Is it fair to compare Nazism with Christianity ? I think the differences are as prominent as the similarities. More to the point, strict ideologies confident of the 'truth' organized into an active, self-preserving hierarchy is a recipe for horror. Nazi horror show, Christian horror show -- the victims fail to see the difference. Except hypocrisy. *No one* does hypocrisy like religion, and christians go to professional school to become acolytes of the discipline. E.g., a reading of the people canonized by the catholic church is amazing: most are either monsters, or victims of the worse persecution the church can dish out.

Personally, I'm still nervous about Y2K. Anybody who thinks it has passed is just looking at the wrong calendar

 

That is precisely how I ceased being a Christian in the first place. I was an acolyte, worked in the church kitchen, enjoyed working to help people. Then I decided to read the whole Bible. I became so appalled by the morality I read there, all faith evaporated from me. It spoke back all right.

Now, I do good things (including working in a church kitchen feeding people) without having to worry about a God (or a portrayal of one) whose morals I can't stomach.

On the other hand, the is a good cure for sick building syndrome in there.