the usual confusion about diesels, European driving cycles, CO2, gallon sizes, etc.

I like your response. One small correction is that the 1.6 diesel Passat is a different beast to the 1.6 diesel Bluemotion Passat. The Bluemotion is a name given by VW to their super economically tuned diesel models (Passat, Golf etc). These particular cars cost more to buy than the equivalent and similar specced (on paper) model. The engines are tuned more for economy, as is the gearing (manual only) and there are some differences in aerodynamics such as restyled wing mirrors or boardings under the car to assist airflow.

Many manufacturers offer these 'eco' options now and many do get mpg's comparable to the Prius on the 'extra urban' cycle. Trouble is, not one of them is an automatic nor are they any fun to drive with power output often very low - the Passat has 103bhp! Put them in the city and you'll have particle filter issues and the economy will drop down - even with the dreadfully old fashioned stop start technology using traditional starter motors!

I suppose if you drive long distances on the highway all day, every day and can live with the low power outputs you will get good fuel economy and other tax benefits applicable to vehicles with a rating of 100g/km or less. Remember, diesel is cheaper than petrol in most (but not all) European countries and diesel infastructure is also more mature here too - all filling stations have an equal number of petrol and diesel pumps.

So could an American motorist cope with a manual, long geared, under powered diesel car that gets 75 UK mpg, but costs about £2,000/$3,000 more than a more powerful diesel offering by the same manufacturer? The answer would be no. They're only popular over here because of the significant company tax benefits.

 

c02 is not the problem its airpollution like cancer danger from a diesel
and i can confirm that those bleu motion sthings stil stink a lot.
but dont emitt thos black smoke like old diesels dot just that its happens ones in a while to clean the patical filter.

 

Think I need to come up with a clever response to that, but need to do some more research first. But what I do know: Manitoba is also affected by global demand, we have winter, and use ULSD. 3 of the 4 factors he stated there. Yet diesel here right now, in the dead of winter when it's often highest, is only ~6 cents / gal more than regular unleaded. Could all be because of taxes, but I highly doubt it. There's got to be more that's causing the high diesel prices across so much of the USA.

 

Winter diesel, and buying diesel in winter are two different things.

Costs go up because heating oil use rises. But thats for all petroleum fuels

Then there is traditional winter blend diesel which is blended with #1 and #2 diesel a typically costs more than straight #2 diesel while providing poorer mpgs and less power.

Then there is straight #2 winter diesel with additives. We use this on our farm in the winter. Every diesel likes #2 better, but #2 has a much higher cloud point than #1. So the refineries basically add antigel and other additives to the fuel. Its actually cheaper than buying blended #1 and #2 if you buy in large quantities.


The new diesels are clean, doesnt matter what they smell like, the numbers dont lie.

We have some SCR diesels on our farm and the smell of burning urea and diesel will gag you, but then again any gasoline engine gags me more. The new diesels smell like burning glue kind of, but they are clean.

The human senses cant always detect what is good or bad.

 

Are you saying I shouldn't be using ethylene glycol as a low cal sweetner?

While a gallon of diesel contains more carbon than a gallon of petro, diesel cars traditionally have a higher fuel economy, which gives them a lower CO2 per mile/km score. That's how the EU reports and regulates carbon emissions in cars, and likely what the original letter was referring to. I think there are one or two, granted smaller, diesels that score higher than the Prius in that metric.

 

In the US the refineries are setup to produce more gas vs diesel and it is not trivial to switch so any added pressure on the supply raises prices. Also since most diesel in the US is consumed by the trucking industry it attracts a larger share of a different tax base.

Lastly before my Prius I had a Bluetec E320 CDI diesel. I would got a longterm avg of 29.5mpg and could get up to 37mpg on the highway if very careful. I really liked the car, but what is funny is yes it was more luxurious than my Prius, but it did not really have much more room and many friends have commented on that. It didn't stink but still smelled of a bit of diesel especially when cold. On the clouds of smoke, friends parents had Merc diesels when I was a kid and if you went anywhere near the accelerator a big black cloud, but on my new CDI it was fine for average acceleration but if you needed to move black cloud (smaller yes but definitely there). Lastly here in the US the fuel is 20-30 cents more per gallon so that sucked.

Last bit I prefer my Prius.

 

We ran out of heating oil last week, so I ran out to get so road diesel to tide us over until we could get a delivery. It could just be the winter blend, but the ULSD had nearly no scent. I could tell when the #2 was delivered just by stepping out and breathing in.

 

And what about the NOx emissions of diesel? Even when they do comply with US emissions (which are stricter than EU limits) they only just scrape through - for now.

 

That's not strictly true.

The 2011 MB E350 BlueTec has certified NOx emissions that hit SULEV (0.02 g/mile - http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2011/daimler_pc_a0030403_3d0_u2_diesel.pdf ).

As a matter of fact, the E350 BlueTec meets SULEV in all aspect except slightly high NMHC (0.015 g/mi cert vs. 0.010 SULEV limit). And I would argue that it meets SULEV in principle since diesels have essentially no evaporative emissions (0.05 g/mile running loss allowed for SULEV).

 

Re: as usual, the diesel fanboys have it wrong

You are commenting on a comment to Seeking Alpha. OK that's true devotion to a cause. Those crazy europeans love diesel. It is almost a religious preference. If USA had used diesel instead of gasoline for cars years ago, soot would have been incredible. Europeans got tired of cleaning their household draperies, so now we have clean diesel. OK but its not better than a Prius which is a very clean vehicle. When you think about how many bazillion miles per year we Amercians log on cars, you realize modern gasoline engines/fuel are quite clean burning. Of course, it could be way cleaner yet if all cars met Prius standards of cleanliness.

 

It kind of makes me wonder how clean the Prius would have been, if there were a propane version.

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