1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Energy Consumption

Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by mfennell, Jul 25, 2011.

Page 1 of 5
  1. mfennell

    mfennell New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    241
    39
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Due to overwhelming (ahem) demand, I'm breaking this out into its own thread.


    252.2mi, 102 kWh. 40.4 kWh/100mi or 2.48 mi/kWh (+26 gas, 0.8gal)
    175.5mi, 60.5 kWh. 34.5 kWh/100mi or 2.9mi/kWh
    125.1mi, 42.9 kWh. 34.3 kWh/100mi or 2.91mi/Kwh (+20, 0.46gal)
    127.8mi, 43.7kWh. 34.2 kWh/100mi or 2.92 mi/kWh
    229.2mi, 71.7kWh. 31.3 kWh/100mi or 3.2 mi/kWh (+4.5, 0.13 gal)
    241.6mi, no data. Power outage that week.

    Avg over last 2500 EV miles: 33.4 kWh/100mi or 2.99 mi/kWh

    Last week was brutally hot for NJ (readings of 102-104 by the car) and my wife took the Volt to the beach on Saturday. It showed in my worst recorded results. Very curious how much battery thermal management affected the results but there's no way to tease it out. The car is parked outside all the time which does not help one bit. It sounds like a jet when pre-cooling @ 102F indicated - every fan in the car spooled up to "11".


    EDIT: Here are previous weeks, I'll do this until it becomes impractical if anyone is interested.:

    128.0 mi, 43.49 kWh. 34.0 kWh/100mi or 2.94 mi/kWh (+2 gas, 0.05gal)
    123.8 mi, 42.91 kWh. 34.7 kWh/100mior 2.89 mi/kWh
    264.3 mi, 79.03 kWh. 29.9 kWh/100mi or 3.34 mi/kWh (+12 gas, 0.37gal)
    172.9 miles, 54.25 kWh*. 31.4 kWh/100mi or 3.19 miles/kWh.
    227 mi, 81.3 kWh -- 35.8 kWh/100mi or 2.79 mi/kWh
    223.6 mi , 75.71 kWh -- 33.85 kWh/100mi or 2.95 mi/kWh
    249.7 mi, 73.1 kWh -- 29.27 kWh/100mi or 3.41 mi/kWh (+7 gas, 0.2gal)
    191.1 mi, 62.25 kWh -- 32.6 kWh/100mi or 3.07 mi/kWh (+12 gas, 0.36gal)
     
    #1 mfennell, Jul 25, 2011
    3 people like this.
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,665
    49,371
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    and the answer is?
     
    #2 bisco, Jul 25, 2011
  3. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    985
    211
    0
    Location:
    Delaware
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    He's not re-starting the success or failure question (See 1100+ post thread), he was giving data in that thread and was asked to start a new one for discussion of the data.
     
    #3 gwmort, Jul 26, 2011
  4. mfennell

    mfennell New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    241
    39
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Just moving evnow's post over.
    Early on, it looked like I could achieve parity with you but we have definitely diverged as the heat has come up in NJ. That, and I'm not the most fastidious eco-driver. I have even been known (gasp!) to leave the AC on in the car while running into a store.

    I've been wondering how much charging efficiency I throw away with L1 vs L2. I apparently qualify for a "free" SPX EVSE but it requires paying an SPX-approved technician some ridiculous fee despite the fact that I already have 240 in my garage for a heater.
     
    #4 mfennell, Jul 26, 2011
  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,996
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Average premium gas mileage is 35 MPG. You are doing better with electricity but worse with the gas compared to the EPA numbers.
     
    #5 usbseawolf2000, Jul 26, 2011
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,566
    4,101
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Great information.
    mfennell's volt lifetime average 3.0 m/kwh
    evnowls leaf lifetime average 3.4 m/kwh

    Both exceed EPA estimates. YMMV, especially mine with heavy AC, so I won't match, but great mileage is possible.

    The last question for mfennell is when do you use the gas engine. Do you use it mainly for a few long trips, or is it more of a daily suplement?
     
    #6 austingreen, Jul 26, 2011
  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,754
    5,245
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    What does that tell us? Are those vehicles you still own, owned in the past, or is your only vehicle the Volt now?
    .
     
    #7 john1701a, Jul 26, 2011
  8. mfennell

    mfennell New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    241
    39
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I've only made one long trip of about 350 miles. All other times have been a supplement. Coincidentally (or not), my wife has put about 75% of the gas miles on the car, though she drives it maybe 10% of the time.
     
    #8 mfennell, Jul 26, 2011
  9. mfennell

    mfennell New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    241
    39
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I currently own those cars.
     
    #9 mfennell, Jul 26, 2011
  10. mfennell

    mfennell New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    241
    39
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    My feeling is 35 is probably close to right but I have never done an at-the-pump measurement - I've only put gas in it twice in 4400 miles and only 3/4 tank the last time. All the little quantities can't possibly be precisely accurate. That, and I'm sure mileage suffers from short trips just like other cars. It's not uncommon for my engine run to barely get through warm-up before I'm home.
     
    #10 mfennell, Jul 26, 2011
  11. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,566
    4,101
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Very cool. You probably did use the majority of your gasoline on that one trip if I am reading your gas usage properly. I know that 350 mile trip was an outlier, but how many gallons did you use?


    Even your wife is hardly using any gasoline, then again if the volt had 20% better range you might have only used a trickle. I wonder if GM can squeeze that much extra simply out of using a broader SOC when battery improvements come.
     
    #11 austingreen, Jul 26, 2011
  12. mfennell

    mfennell New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    241
    39
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I have no idea, unfortunately. I don't know if the tank was full when I started and I didn't even record what the car thought I used. Then there was the matter of leaving it ON in a hotel parking lot overnight...

    Anyway, the car says I've used 15 gallons over 4400 miles of driving. Best (educated) guess is that I've used 1300kWh during that time. I have measured 833 kWh over the last 2490 EV miles.
     
    #12 mfennell, Jul 26, 2011
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,754
    5,245
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    What is your Volt data suppose to represent then?

    Driving anything else taints daily efficiency & expectations.
    .
     
    #13 john1701a, Jul 26, 2011
  14. mfennell

    mfennell New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    241
    39
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    It's my data. Does it trouble you that it doesn't match your pre-conceived notions? Feel free to refer to the other Volt drivers willing to provide this forum with raw results if mine do not reach your threshold for acceptability.

    You made that exact point already and I addressed it:
    You have my driving details. Again. Extrapolate my data as necessary to show how much the car sucks.
     
    #14 mfennell, Jul 27, 2011
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,033
    11,505
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Are you saying we can't trust the data from anybody who might drive another car?

    If anything, mfennell's results with the Volt become more impressive if he drives it in manner close to how those others are typically driven.
     
    #15 Trollbait, Jul 27, 2011
  16. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,081
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    mfennell and gwmort, despite our rantings I really appreciate your real world data and experiences. :)
     
    #16 F8L, Jul 27, 2011
    4 people like this.
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    John is just saying that other cars in the mix let the owner select or exclude trips that could alter the average Volt data if it was the only car.

    This happens in my home, e.g. We use the Prius most of the time, but the Subaru is used for trips to the hardware store, and in the winter for short trips or bad snow days. If the Prius was the only car, its lifetime average would be less than it is.

    Mfennel could clarify how many of the 3k miles a year he drives a car other than the Volt are jaunts over 35 miles a trip.
     
    #17 SageBrush, Jul 27, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  18. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    985
    211
    0
    Location:
    Delaware
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I think the point to remember is all that an individual driver can report is that driver's results and experiences. We're not testing labs able to set up clinical trials with regulated controls.

    In the law we have the concept of the "reasonable man", but no single person is such. There is also no "average driver" everyone's circumstances are different, how far they commute, terrain and climate, if they have other cars in the family, etc...

    Its why they say YMMV, it always does.

    It one of the issues with PHEVs (Plug in Prius included), HOW you use the car has a much bigger impact on economy than in traditional cars, even hybrids.

    As to the grief we catch on here from the haters (jk), its all good, I enjoy spirited debate with informed people strong in their convictions. If we wanted to just gush over how great the car is with similarly minded individuals we know where to do that too (gm-volt.com).
     
    #18 gwmort, Jul 27, 2011
  19. mfennell

    mfennell New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    241
    39
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I did my best SWAG. Twice. It's right there in the post. I guessed, absolute worst case to be conservative, 1000 miles outside the Volt's EV range, which is more typically 40-45 miles in my experience. I just don't drive outside my immediate area all that often these days.

    As I said, rerun the numbers in any way you see fit. Assume ALL those extra miles are in CS mode. Or use Consumer Report's winter-in-connecticut results. Whatever you like. I've provided plenty of data showing CD and CS mode operation under my control. It is what it is.

    As an aside, in 4 months, I have yet to encounter a need not met by the car. A small lawnmower in the box (rechargeable, of course) even fit in the hatch with the seats up, much to my surprise. My wagon is sometimes more convenient but has not been absolutely necessary and only lethargy prevents me from selling it for the $500 it's easily worth. :)
     
    #19 mfennell, Jul 27, 2011
  20. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,754
    5,245
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Yup. Having that option changes outcome. It's like the difference from those who plug in multiple times per day rather than just overnight. The data won't be representative of what others will encounter who don't have that.

    We don't have a basis of comparison provided either. What was the efficiency prior to the plug-in purchase? How can you know what the improvement without those details?
    .
     
    #20 john1701a, Jul 27, 2011
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 5