GM Confirms Cadillac version of Volt is Green Light and on the way

ramp up? Yea right - 20% of Caddy Escalade sales are hybrid. In 2010, GM sold 26,000 Escalades in the U.S.A. which means GM sold appx 5,000 hybrid Caddy SUV's. That's after 3 model years . . . . 2008 - 2009 - 2010. They've ramped up to 5,000. So do those kinds of volumes really amount to ramping up? The 2 wheel drive Caddy SUV hybrid (alone) costs about $75,000 ... so don't look too much for any ramping up .... no, this price for a luxury hybrid is not by any means your average buying public. If you want an over powered super duper hybrid sedan, for a measly $25K more, you'd go with Toyota's offering - The 510hp Lexus 600h:



:thumb:

At least Lexus offers REAL hybrids, that meet SULEV standards. Not so with GM's PHEV, unfortunately ... but they say they're trying to work on that.

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Being heavy does not automaticly make a vehicle wasteful. It is pure assumption.

While it is better to be lighter, the preconceived notions of what is heavy for a vehicle needs rethought when it comes to EVs. Batteries are heavy. The structure and suspension needed to accommodate them increases weight. They are also expensive, not leaving much budget for costlier, light weight materials.

Nissan Leaf, depending on source, weighs 350 to 500 pounds more than a Prius. It weighs as much as the Rogue.

 

If you take out the 400 lbs battery pack from the Volt, it is still heavier than the Honda CR-V. It takes more energy to move the heavier vehicle so it is wasteful whichever energy source you use.

In CS mode, Volt's city mpg is lower than highway and that highlights how wasteful it is. On the highway, more than half of the energy is spent to push air. If Volt is less efficient in the city, it must waste a lot more than half the energy. 35 MPG in the city for a hybrid with powerful electric motor is not right.

 

I just spotted this link to some more press...
Cadillac Unveils Convertible Hybrid Concept Car - Yahoo! Autos


Considering the cost of the Volt I'll need a $40,000 tax credit drive it.

 

Let's see the epa,

CR-V 0 miles EV range, volt 35 miles EV-range. The volt's weight doesn't look too wastefull here. How about your other conclusion.

CR-V city 21, highway 28.
volt city 35, highway 40.

It doesn't appear that the volt weighing more than the CR-V isn't really the determining factor on fuel economy. Now it seems that volt owners are traveling farther on electricity than on gas from the statistics tracking cars, so pretending electric range is worthless is irrational. To get their you do need to add weight. The caddy while far from exciting, also seems like a step in the right direction especially if more luxury and performance are added.

 

You missed my point. If the Volt doesn't have battery, it would not get 35 city and CR-V would get more with a battery. Ford Escape hybrid gets 34 mpg in the city with 2.5L instead of 1.4L ICE. Volt's gas mpg is really substandard for a compact 4 seater hybrid.

 

No, I got your point, I just thought it was not valid. Its like saying if a bird didn't have wings it could not fly, and it runs slower than a cat. Why would you build a plug in hybrid without a battery. Seems pretty worthless. Then you complain about the fuel economy because of weight, but it is much higher than similar conventional cars. No, valid point at all.

If you are saying there is no market for a 4 seater, there you are wrong again. But hey if you need 5 or 7 the volt or this future caddy is not for you. Just stop with the false analogies and wringing of hands on how bad 37mpg combined is after 35 miles of ev range. There are what 5 cars in the us that exceed that mpg and none has 1 mile of high speed ev, and no cadillacs come close.

 

Weight is a factor in fuel efficiency .... but there are other factors that must be considered as well. Gearing for example. I have no figures now, but for years I followed performance vehicles, and the final differential gear ration made a tremendius difference in otherwise identical cars. BTW, the CRV is an AWD ... another factor. Wind drag still another; low rolling resistant tires (the CRV OEM tires are better suited for winter driving than low rolling resistance.

 

No, you did not get my point. Perhaps, I was not stating clearly to prevent you from putting words in my mouth. Let me try again.

It is not a secret that Volt is based on the Cruze. Cruze weights 2,900 lbs. Volt weights 3,800 lbs. Volt's battery weights 400 lbs.

If you subtract the weight of the battery, Volt is still 500 lbs heavier. There are additional weight for the fancy battery liquid cooling and the oversized electric motor, generator and supersized inverter to feed them plus yet another cooling system to cool the inverter.

If GM make a Cruze full hybrid, it should weight about 3,100 lbs with much smaller battery, MGs and light active air cooling. It would also get higher city MPG, perhaps around 50 like Prius.

We know heavier hybrids have lower city mpg. The heaviest yet highest mpg is probably the Fusion hybrid and Escape hybrid comes in second. Volt's substandard 35 mpg is due to the weight and also the inferior gas engine and the use of the planetary gearset (PSD) in reverse like in the original TRW patent.

I am aware of the 35 miles EV range. The exact point we are discussing is the consequences of it.

Honda Insight with 15 hp electric motor can get 40 city mpg. Volt gets 35 mpg with 150 hp electric motor.

 

Yes, the added plug and battery for a decent EV range does add weight.
Yes, this means when EV mode is gone and the car starts burning gas it is less efficient than a hypothetical Cruze hybrid.

Here's the but. According to user reports, two of which post here, the EV range is meeting the majority of their needs. So even with its "poorer" CS mode fuel economy, they are burning less total gasoline than if they had a Cruze hybrid, or any available hybrid, instead.

You are belittling the Volt for its performance in the 90% use. It's a reach. About as much as one as calling the Prius a failure for having a tow rating of 0.

 

To each his own. I' m just glad to see lots of choices becoming available

 

2 is a very small sample size. According to GM, the average is 66% of the total miles were from the battery/electricity. A third of the miles ran on premium gas.

The weight did not increase a little but to the level of Equinox SUV. If you subtract Volt's 400 lbs battery, it still weights more than the Leaf with the bigger battery pack. There are a lot of duplicate heavy powertrain in the Volt that does not increase the combined peak power. It surely need wider tire to stop.

Cadillac version should weight even more. I hope it doesn't weight as much as the F-150 truck. Just because it runs on electricity doesn't mean it is green. It can be overweight and wasteful. We shouldn't give "green lights" to them. I am raising a red flag.

 

Well I certainly did get the point you were trying to make, and find that it has no validity. I certainly do not intend to put words in your mouth, but your explanations seem more and more meandering than informative. I only reply since you have tried twice since my last post, and wish you would end all the silliness.

The volt weighs more than a cruze, and tesla weighs less than an escalade. Ok fine. No need to pretend that all 500lbs is in the hybrid system, its not, but lets pretend it is for the sake of "your point".

You mean if they decided not to build a phev it would get as good of mileage as the prius? hmm. I don't buy that at all. Besides we already have a prius. How many would buy a gm cruze +prius hybrid drive train instead of a prius? My guess is not many. How long has honda failed to build a prius competitor?

Again what does this have to do with "your point"? Hybrids seem to defy this made up universal law don't you think? Weight matters but doesn't kill fuel economy that fast. The next gen camry hybrid lost only a little weight but gained a great deal fuel economy in the city, 10mpg IIRC. The volt certainly could improve its engine/psd/software like the camry hybrid did. This Cadillac will likely have a revised second gen hybrid system. The volt currently blows away every Cadillac in fuel economy, and the next generation should only be better. So your original supposition that this fuel economy is horrible is not valid.

Consequences are more weight and cost. It is not horrible fuel economy.

Again, what are you jabbering about. Are there cars that get better fuel economy than the volt sure. But 35/40/37 with 35 miles ev range is great mileage, especially for a first generation car. Now I'm not all that sure the insight is very differentiated from a prius, but gets worse mileage with only price as an improvement. It seems you just don't have much of a valid point. If you gut a volt, no one will buy it. If you gut the prius no one will buy that either. Your argument seems to parallel those that talk about how unreliable prius batteries are, and without them you get a corolla. Invalid to anyone with a brain. Lets get more choice.

I'll add a third, austin city council member mike Martinez, when he opened the first city sponsored recharging station stated that he has burned 4.5gallons of gas in the last 1800 miles of driving his volt.

So instead of 90% it may be 66%, but you act like its 0%. Why? The average volt owner is averaging 9 gallons of gas per 1000 miles and electricity for the rest. Lets pretend 37mpg is horrible and it should get 50, large assumption. That would mean they would save 2.3 gallons every 1000 miles, and I in no way believe in the mythical 50mpg hybrid cruze. I would not call current gas mileage bad at all.But wait they would probably use 20 gallons of gas in your mythical hybrid cruze, but no electricity. Electricity for gas is a trade off may people would make, but the volt can get more efficient and the price can get lower. This will take a redesign.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the volt is light. Why are you concerned? The key metrics about weight are acceleration, handling, and fuel economy. Acceleration and handling are worse than many cars, but certainly better than the prius. The mileage is what it is.

I'll say this, if the volt isn't green there aren't many green cars out there. We all know you dislike the volt. You are quite vocal about it. But harping on weight being wasteful, does not seem to be a very good argument. Choice is good. I hope this car gets more powerful and more efficient than the volt, but if it is close to the efficiency of the volt it will definitely add to our green choices. And no, I doubt I will buy one, but some will.

 

Depending on source, and Nissan's site doesn't say, the difference between the Leaf and Volt may only be 280#. About what the Volt's engine probably weighs. The Leaf has a bigger battery, but doesn't have a thermal management system. Both put a lot of weight to the battery and its support systems. That's the nature of the beast when dealing with EVs and PHVs with extended ranges.

Until more models come to market for comparison, it is premature to call a car wasteful because it equals a company's small SUV in weight.

So CS mode is at one third use. Those owners have still burnt less gas than if they had a Prius.

 

It is about 300 pounds lighter. Shouldn't it get better fuel economy?

 

Those Volt owners consumed 479,143 kWh of electricity and Prius consumed none. That's a huge amount of energy to save 21,082 gallon of gasoline.

 

Happy Wednesday! Enjoy the rest of your day and don't get too worked up.

 

Probably a misleaded buy. Should have bought a Leaf instead (much cheaper), and avoided many maintenance costs for the ICE.

The reason for this low fuel consumption is attached to the driver's profile (small trips in charge deplete mode), not to the Volt's good MPG ability overall.

 

No, there are many regional differences that makes the volt a better car for Austin than the leaf. Most daily drives are less than the volt's range, but there are many things far away. Even San Antonio is outside the leaf's range. I calculated that I would use about 60 gallons a year in a volt, almost all of those miles on trips further than the leaf's range. These would virtually be all highway or rural miles in hot weather. Most of the buyers will be early adopters that lease, making the cars almost exactly the same cost for 3 years. But the kicker is you can buy a volt here now, but you can't buy a leaf.

When available I expect the leaf, c-max, prius phv all to do well here, just as the prius has done. The c-max energi and volt probably have the upper hand. I don't think the caddy will sell well in austin. The city has a younger demographic and goes more for bmws and mercedes in the luxo market. The phev

 

Potential Chevrolet Volt buyers already losing interest?

If price is the issue, then the Caddy version will not sell many!