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It's a sick society where people drive to the gym ...

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by chogan2, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I would approach the issue from a different point of view. Consider the following:
    1) Vary your routine so that the gym is just for some days of the week. Walking for a good distance on the weekend, a weekday or two is fantastic exercise that can be enjoyable, especially if someone joins for conversation. Biking one or two times per week should be another variation.
    2) Adjust and fine someone to join in the trip. That drastically changes your calculations.
    3) Safety--No scooter for me. The raw odds are too bad for motoring in traffic with only your body as the impact absorber. Safety does not figure into any efficiency calculation but should figure into the final selection.
    4) Is this a year round decision? If the winter/rainy/snowy days have you taking the car, then the calculations need to include this.
    5) Have something to work towards. This can range from a holiday fun walk/run to the ironman.
     
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I was thinking elec scooter too. But this is dangerous on our roads <I live near you>. I jog trails out my front door and sometimes bike to high school go around track. But when I bike I go off-road trails and side roads, sidewalks carefully. Sneak there basically. Main roads here are nuts. You have W&OD trail real close I presume. That goes places. I do 5K's when I can...but I am "Clydesdale" also.
     
  3. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Brunow sounds like a horses nice person.

    Getting into a routine in a gym works for some people and they stick with it better than a less structured routine. It often isn't practical to run, walk, bike to a gym. Plus, if you have less than ideal climate, you can get your aerobic exercise in indoors instead of out in the rain, snow or sweltering humid summer.

    I'm not a gym rat, but it's what works for lots of people.
     
  4. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    I'm going to be the last person in the world to offer gym advice.

    I don't care what the EPA put on the Insight's sticker--that is 1 tough car to beat when it is driven correctly. The 1st rally I entered was won by Meredith in her Insight (don't know the year) at 75mpg. (She practiced once she learned of the rally.) For the record, I did beat another Insight. That guy got so lost he was almost a DNF (Did Not Finish).

    The next year she didn't enter. Good. (or so I thought). That rally was won by a different Insight posting 125mpg.

    I wouldn't trade a Prius for an Insight with a battery pack rebuilt with Toyota cells either.
     
  5. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    FYI
    Farifax County Bicycle Map - Fairfax County, Virginia

    or Trails and Sidewalks Committee - Maps - Fairfax County, Virginia if you need print outs
     
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  6. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    It's not driving to the gym that bothers me; it's people who drive around and around the gym's parking lot trying to find the closest space. I once saw a guy in an H2 do just that. Then again, the dude probably goes there only to pick up chicks anyway...
     
  7. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    H2? is he compensating for something?
     
  8. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    Battery assisted bikes are going to be the most efficient. You can cruise at 20mph on one with little effort. Other than that electric motorcycle or scooter.

    Watch out for gas scooters - while some may get you 75mpg+, the emissions are horrible on them.

    FWIW, my LEAF gets me ~3.8-3.9 mi / kWh from the wall in suburban driving here (surface streets with 50-55 mph speed limits). With speed limits of 45 mph and better light timing I would expect 4.5 mi / kWh to be possible. The iMiev which start selling soon will be a bit more efficient than the LEAF. Of course, if your Prius already has a PHEV conversion and it will go the distance before depleting the battery, there's not much point in buying a new car.
     
  9. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Could we be using "not wanting to bike to the Gym" as a excuse to justify buying ourselves more toys?
     
  10. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    No. We're not that sort of people. We don't like spending money. We particularly don't like spending money on expensive disposables like large battery packs.

    We bike essentially all of our local errands, including grocery shopping. We have both baskets (for normal runs) and a trailer (for larger items). So we're not unwilling to bike.

    In addition, we have a life-long contempt for car commuting. We figure that people who car commute just get numb about the amount of gasoline they burn, and people like that probably wouldn't notice the additional gas spent in driving to the gym. But, since we don't car commute, adding 14 miles per day is pretty much the equivalent of commuting by car. Using our car (30 mpg Mazda) not our spouse's car (PHEV Prius), driving to the gym five days a week would increase total family gasoline consumption by a little over 40 percent. We consider this to be an inappropriate use of fossil fuels in the context of how we otherwise live. If we were already out driving every day, no big deal. If not, yeah, this seems kind of disproportionate.

    But the problem is as stated: This is a particularly tough trip by bike, it is one that we want to take on a routine basis, it takes a us a lot of time do it, time that we don't have to spend. Whereas the drive, off-peak, can be under 10 minutes door-to-door. Driving encourages use of the gym, no doubt. If we bike, we commit to about 2.5 hours door-to-door, and are effectively totally beat and un-showered upon returning home. Not to mention the weather factor. That is all a strong deterrent. Yet, the gym is one of the few places where we will fall into a pattern of scheduled, routine exercise.

    Until we heard about electric scooters, we could not find anything that was substantially more efficient than a car. Now we are considering our options, and all of them require spending a fair bit of money.

    We can get an adequate electric scooter for $3500, net of Federal rebates. But legally, there is no such thing as a scooter. There are mopeds and there are motorcycles. If it's powerful enough to keep up with surface-street traffic (45 mph), it's a motorcycle, which requires a training course and a motorcycle license. Yet we can see substantial utility in a motorcycle, even though out teenage children find the idea of our riding a motorcycle to humorous.

    We can get electric bike conversion kits, but our beloved Bike-e, with its 16" front wheel and planetary-gear rear wheel, is particularly difficult. Cheap kits won't fit. (And won't last for this amount of travel). The kits that will fit are expensive. We have found an absolutely bulletproof high-powered chain-drive kit -- for $3000(!). We have never owned a $3000 bicycle and we don't intend to start now. We have found an adequate $850 front-wheel electric hub kit, but it is not clear that this kit is still sold, but we are sure that the hub motor is no longer manufactured (suggesting no parts, when-not-if it breaks, may be a problem).

    Both the scooter and the e-bike are subject to weather issues. The e-bike, if sufficiently slow, can still legally be driven on bike trails (important in this case because part of the bike route is on the W and OD bike trail). We can't make up our mind as to which is more dangerous -- an e-bike at 25 mph, limited suspension, on trails and city streets, or an underpowered e-motorcycle with full suspension, at 45 mph on surface streets. We are thinking that we are likely be more of a hazard to ourselves on the E-bike -- limited suspension, narrow tires, additional weight on an already heavy load, mechanical brakes, and perhaps too much familiarity with the existing machine to take the additional hazards seriously. Whereas the e-motorcycle (scooter) is built for the task and weight, complies with DOT standards for lighting and such, and has to be driven just like a car, no exceptions.

    Anyway, this thread has been very helpful to us in getting our thinking together about this particular problem. Net, we are still thinking that a traffic-capable electric motorcycle (scooter) is probably the way to go, but we are still trying to find a better e-bike option for a 16" wheel.

    That said, all the various suggestions that amount to "just suck it up", "exercise at home", "don't be such a wuss", "eat less, exercise more" and so on, are all well taken. All true. Sound advice. We still think we are going to add some type of minor electric vehicle to the home fleet, to give us the option of single-person low-energy transport, somewhere between a bicycle and a car.
     
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  11. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Ah, that description gives me a much better understanding of the problem, and a deeper appreciation of your situation.

    Just out of curiosity, in your list of possible solutions, did you consider a velomobile? It would likely be more expensive, but would solve the problem of low emissions, weather protection, and traffic safety.

    edit: Just in case this idea is new to you, here's the wikipedia page on the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile"]the wikipedia page on velomobiles[/ame] to get you started. They're pretty widely regarded as the 'something between a bike and a car' mentioned earlier. Here's one of the latest and greatest designs.
     
  12. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    If you were starting from scratch and given your parameters, I'd say you should check out electric motorcycles. They can all do 45mph, and they're more efficient than a car.

    But, right now, you have already have a Prius. If you go to the gym 5 days per week and get 50mpg doing a 14 mile round trip, then you will burn (5/7)*(14/50) or 0.2 gallons per day doing it. It's reasonably efficient. Plus, if you could start pooling with others to the gym you could help improve the efficiency.

    Do also remember that with regular exercise at the gym, not only will you be healthier, which should make you more productive and lower the risk of having an energy-intensive chronic condition, but with a lower weight you'll get better mileage in your Prius. :D

    Stick with the Prius but keep thinking about your efficiency in the future. You never know, you might find that after a while of committing to a regular gym routine you'll find it easier to commit to a regular home gym routine.
     
  13. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    Thought about it, but my problem is the hills. Velomobiles are interesting, and solve the weather issues. But wouldn't help with the hills.

    To put it crudely, fat guys can't do hills.

    I biked that route this afternoon to remind me of what, exactly, I find so difficult. I can do a nice, steady 15 mph on the flat. But the hills just kill me -- run me all the way up to my maximum CV output.

    On the flat, a guy my size, doing 15 mph, is about 150 watts of output, which is about what a mediocre rider ought to be able to do. Bike and rider weight hardly matter.

    But put me on a 10% slope, and the same output produces a speed of about 2 mph. Here's a nice little calculator, so you can see what life is like as a fat guy.

    Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator

    So, on the flat, if I drop 100 lbs off my weight, my speed increases from 14.5 mph to 15.5 mph, per this calculator. Just what I observe. My 150 watts keeps me up with traffic just fine on the flat.

    But on a 10% grade, my 150 watts pushes me at just over 2 MPH. Whereas if I were 100 lbs lighter, the same 150 watts would push me up the hill at almost 11 MPH.

    Basically, fat guys stall on steep hills. And on this route, I end up maxed out: In low-low gear, totally out of breath, pedaling as hard as I can, pogo-ing on the air shock, and looking like a total nice person. Two or three episodes like that in a trip, and I'm beat. My goal isn't to test my maximum CV capacity, but that's what I end up doing.

    BTW, for any of you thin, in-shape guys who pass people of my description on long steep hills, here's my advice. It is TOTALLY UNHELPFUL to offer a brief word of encouragement as you cruise past. If I had the breath or the energy I'd cuss you back, no matter how nicely you intended it. Being out of breath makes fat guys really cranky.

    Anyway, it's just basic physics. It's not that I lack power. I put out about 150 watts, which as I understand it is completely average. It's that I have a low power-to-weight ratio. So I get totally maxed out, just from body weight (plus a heavy bike), on these particular hills.
     
  14. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Rear shocks? Climbing hills? That's part of the problem right there. Instead of moving yourself forward, you're moving your body weight up and down. It's not going to give you the equivalent of rocket drive, but try out a bike without rear shocks sometime to feel the difference. Can you lock out the air shocks on your bike? Everything helps, and a hard tail is well known to be significantly more efficient.

    Damn. All these years...sorry, man. I know better than to try to engage people in conversation while they're turning blue, but it seems rude to just zip on by in silence. Here I was trying to be nice. Ok, so maybe downhill at warp 6, I make no apologies for passing anyone. :p

    Exactly. I have some appreciation for this, as I used to do the family grocery shopping on my bike. I generally carried about 80 pounds, and hills were a killer. Nothing to do but put in the granny gear, spin away, and sweat it out.

    If it's any consolation, that extra weight is giving you a great workout. When you've reached your target weight, your bike is going to fly. Until then, I can see an electric assist being very helpful.
     
  15. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    First I'll say the obvious answer: Electric scooter or E-assisted bike.

    And now I'll be that annoying guy you don't want to hear from, but already expect from me. Your assumption and all the answers here are all aimed at GETTING TO THE GYM. And it sounds like a sucky trip. One that you don't enjoy biking. So my annoying advice is to forget the dang gym. And ride. Ride somewhere nice. Ride to work. Ride not TO the gym, but INSTEAD of going to the gym at all. It was a lovely day when I stopped paying $600/year for a local gym membership that I felt guilty not using more than 2x per week... and started riding. If you make riding/running/walking a regular part of your transportation day, it turns out that you don't need the gym. An added benefit for folks carrying some extra pounds... it is EASIER for you guys to lose weight than it is for somebody more fit who still wants to drop another five or ten. Small consolation, maybe, but still. Keep your eye on that silver lining.

    But you already knew that, and this doesn't answer your question.
     
  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Did you enter the figures correctly? For the reduced weight calculation, I think you dropped far more than 100 pounds, instead dropping a digit too.

    To get the default narrow-tire racing bike, hands on drop bar, up to 11 mph, I'd have to reduce my total body to just 36 pounds.
     
  17. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Is it OK to say, "howdy?" Or better to pretend that I didn't see you even if we're the only two guys in a 20 miles radius? Better to offer an insult? Here's a bit of advice for you: As I pass somebody on a climb, I'm working every bit as hard as the guy I'm passing. Maybe I'm going faster because I'm lighter, in better shape or have better form. Or maybe I just want it worse. When I climb, I am often climbing as hard as I can. It is what I do. It is my "interval." Just because I'm passing you does NOT mean that what I'm doing is easier than what you are doing. So do ME a favor and don't think that just because you're going slow and suffering that I'm NOT suffering when I pass you.

    All that said, I am THRILLED to hear that you are out there.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Man, that would be AWESOME. Until the down hill... or any cross wind.
     
  19. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    Have you considered walking these hills? since they are in residential area they have to be fairly short. Also maybe at beginning you do not ride every day, just a couple times a week, and don't do workout, just ride there and back?

    When I started commuting to work (16.5mi one way) first full week was really tough, after 3 weeks it became just an easy stroll.

    Sorry? people admire your courage and you wanna curse them?? maybe it is their fault they don't supersize and eat everything they see and work out daily??

    co-worker in you weight bracket (250lbs) puts out ~400-450wt. Can't touch him on flats. 150wt is avg for putting around or for completely untrained people. It will get better; not easier but you will go faster.
     
  20. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Sure, and you have the freedom to do that if you wish. I'm just saying "adding a minor electric vehicle to the home fleet" for the sole purpose of "efficiently" being able to transport oneself to a single destination? Sounds like reaching for justification of purchase.

    I personally would NOT consume "purchase" another vehicle solely for reaching the Gym. But if you WANT another scooter or electric vehicle for life and transportation in general? Then more "power" to you.

    But it still sounds like justification to me. You say the gym trip using your Mazda would increase your gas consumption 40% and you find that unacceptable. Well? You own a Prius, you own bicycles, you could even investigate public transportation and/or finding a gym closer to home or in a location you'd feel better about riding to...

    Conciously or subconciously you've set yourself up with parameters in this scenario that ONLY lead to your purchasing a "single person low energy transport". Which is fine...if that's what you want.

    It's just saying "I need this, because it's the ONLY acceptable way for me to get to the Gym" that I find hard to believe.

    Buying a scooter or other vehicle for short "powered" trips is a valid purchase. But it sounds like on some level you feel guilty about doing it...You can spend money, if you are purchasing something you want and will use, and you don't need an excuse like "It's going to get me to the Gym".

    Daily routine exercise...laudable.
    Lifestyle decision to minimize using fossil fuels...laudable.
    Desiring some type of efficient personal transportation that
    isn't self powered?...laudable.

    But just be honest...there are options that could get you to the Gym that wouldn't include purchase of another transportation product.

    Let us know what you eventually do end up purchasing and using.