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2nd gen vs. 1st gen (which to buy?)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by suprat04r, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. suprat04r

    suprat04r Junior Member

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    hey everyone, first post here on prius chat! looking forward to reading and posting on here in the near future!

    i am in search and interest in a prius. i can't afford a 3rd gen and might for a 2nd gen. but i was wondering if you all recommend getting a 2nd gen vs. the 1st gen? obviously it's probably better, but just curious as to if it's a drastic difference between them?

    mpg wise if they are somewhat comparable? maintenance and parts wise, etc. looking for a cost effective prius (this will obviously be my first one- hybrid).
    is the 1st gen prius good to get into as an entry prius, or should i spend the extra and get the gen 2?

    there is a 06 prius for about $8500.. but it has about 180k miles... thanks for any insight on these questions
     
    #1 suprat04r, Sep 7, 2011
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Gen II was a major step up in size, MPG, performance, styling, and features and would easily be my vote. 180k miles is a bit of a risk--I would think you could get a lower price than that with that sort of mileage as you're at risk for needing a battery replacement in the next 20-120k miles...That can be expensive depending if you go used or new.
     
    #2 efusco, Sep 7, 2011
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Hello and :welcome: to PriusChat!

    Well the main difference would be sedan vs. hatchback. The 1st generation Prius was a 4-dr sedan with a trunk (no folding seats). It's about the size of a Corolla inside and out of that generation (since Corollas are bigger now). The 2nd generation is a larger vehicle (but still small in overall length) but the biggest improvement is space. More passenger space and more cargo space (and 60/40 fold-flat rear seats). The 2nd generation was still 3 inches shorter than the Corolla at that time but offered Camry-like legroom.

    This chart is a good comparison of the basic hybrid specifications of the different generations. The 1st generation sold in the US would be the "Classic" and the 2nd generation would be the "Iconic"

    [​IMG]
    (Taken from John's Stuff - Toyota Prius and more)

    Both 1st and 2nd generation Prii used a 1.5 litre engine (taken from the Yaris/Echo) but tuned for efficiency. Mpg will be better on the Gen 2 of course with the better battery and hybrid improvements. The 1st generation will require XL rated tyres for its 14" size (normal size but needs the XL rating because it's heavier than what a regular 175/65R14 tyre would hold at each corner). The Gen 2 uses normal sized tyres that are found on most cars.

    The benefit of the Gen 1 is that the turning radius is super tight. It can do u-turns almost anywhere. The Gen 2 has a normal turning radius (for its overall length).

    Given that you are in Las Vegas, the electrically run A/C compressor on the Gen 2 may serve you better. In the Gen 1, the A/C will turn off when the engine shuts off unless you set it at MAX A/C (which then the engine will continue to idle which defeats the purpose of a hybrid). In the 2nd generation, Toyota took the A/C compressor off the engine and had it obtain its power from the hybrid battery. This mean that the engine can shut off and you still have cold air coming into the cabin. You'll have a buffer until the battery drains, then the engine will come on to recharge the battery.
     
    #3 Tideland Prius, Sep 7, 2011
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  4. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Do you mean hybrid battery?:confused:
    I've read many times that Gen I had some HV battery failures, mostly warranty covered...but Gen II very few...
     
    #4 telmo744, Sep 7, 2011
  5. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    The HV battery failure rate is almost impossible to predict, but it seems to be a combination of age and mileage, as in, a high mileage 05 has a higher risk of failure than an ultra-high mileage 09 or a low mileage 04.

    Of Gen II hybrid battery failures in recent memory, they have all been '05 with 130K-200K miles {aa1a, no trust, jdennenberg, evadenyaw, 3island}
     
    #5 seilerts, Sep 7, 2011
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    The improvements from Gen I to Gen II are larger than the improvements from Gen II to Gen III. In my opinion, it is well worth the extra cost for you to buy a Gen II, plus maintenance should be cheaper.

    Tom
     
    #6 qbee42, Sep 7, 2011
  7. suprat04r

    suprat04r Junior Member

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    wow thanks a lot guys! i definitely will be holding out or looking for a gen 2 instead. lots of quick and informative replies, i love it! :)

    what is a good price for a gen 2 and i'm not sure of all the options etc.??? the one that i mentioned, came with the option 6 (?) they said it pretty much included everything. i dont know if that is a big deal or not.

    also, is the hybrid battery the main maintenance replacement in the gen 2's? how much are they (roughly) new and/or used?
    thanks again!
     
    #7 suprat04r, Sep 7, 2011
  8. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Toyotas are legendary for long life, but I'd be very wary of any car with 180,000 miles. Otherwise I'd agree that the Gen 2 is a better car than the Gen 1.
     
    #8 daniel, Sep 7, 2011
  9. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    The two big ticket repairs are the hybrid battery and the transaxle. You will be hard pressed to get either repaired for less than $1000, using salvage pulls. Figure conservatively $2000 for installed price of salvage trans or reconditioned hybrid battery, or $4000 for new parts.

    $8500 is priced close to market if it is a #6. There are two 180000+ mile cars on ebay right now, a 2004 #9 bid to $6200 with 5 days left, and a 2005 #1 with a starting bid of $8900 and a rejected offer of $7000.

    Feel free to use my examples of battery failure in 2005 to try to talk them down, but I think $8000 is probably a fair price.

    Of course, the key point is the test drive. A well maintained Toyota with that mileage will have the look and feel of a lightly used car.
     
    #9 seilerts, Sep 7, 2011
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Personally, I would only consider a high-mileage or old Prius if I lived within towing distance of an independent hybrid mechanic like Seilerts in Santa Fe, or the folks in Denver as examples.

    OP: if you can wait a couple of months, I think prices will come down and you will be able to buy a 5 - 6 year old, 100 - 125k mile G2 Prius for about $10k. Just be careful not to buy salvage title, and avoid cars that have an expensive repair history.
     
    #10 SageBrush, Sep 7, 2011
  11. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Gen 1 Prius = Black & White TV
    Gen 2 Prius = Colour TV
    Gen 3 Prius = HD TV
     
    #11 GrumpyCabbie, Sep 7, 2011
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    This thread will help you. USA is at the top and just scroll to the year you're looking for. There were 8 packages for 2006.

    http://priuschat.com/forums/knowled...andard-optional-equipment-some-countries.html

    It really depends on what toys you want. There's the navigation system, backup camera, bluetooth handsfree, Smart Key System (proximity-based entry and keyless start) as well as HIDs and a 9-speaker JBL audio system. Note that the screen resolution is much higher on 2006+ models with the backup camera (non-backup-camera-equipped models used the older 2004-2005 screen resolution). 2006 is also when Toyota did the midlife update to the Prius bringing it AUX Jack for mp3 players, MP3/WMA capability for the CD player, passenger occupancy detection system for the front passenger seat and new dashboard/upper door trim material. (as well as the aforementioned backup camera, updated navigation system and higher resolution screen). Leather was also made available in 2006.


    A Gen 2 battery is about $2,100 new plus labour and taxes. A salvaged one will be a lot cheaper.
     
    #12 Tideland Prius, Sep 7, 2011
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  13. suprat04r

    suprat04r Junior Member

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    Besides the obvious "bad title" why is getting a salvaged prius bad? The one ik m looking at has a theft title and is 2005, 130k,miles with option #6?
     
    #13 suprat04r, Sep 13, 2011
  14. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    The Prius has some expensive components: some repairs cost more than the battery. A Salvage Prius loses warranty protection so it's a crap shoot.
     
    #14 ItsNotAboutTheMoney, Sep 13, 2011
  15. AllenZ

    AllenZ Active Member

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    Be aware of flooded Prius these days. If you buy used, make sure get a good mechanics to check it carefully, and understand the cause of the damage. On top of that, money balances the rest.

    Still, the best ban of buck is in used in my opinion. Good luck!
     
    #15 AllenZ, Sep 13, 2011
  16. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Given that I have two salvage titles in my fleet and am rebuilding on a third, I have a difference of opinion with many here regarding this issue. I could give a crap about warranty since I do all my own repairs. The usual problem with the Prius is that most rebuilders will do the bare minimum to get the car back on the road, especially the front-end repair work. Of particular concern are orange HV connectors: any connector that was cracked or broken should be replaced, but usually they are not, and are susceptible to short circuit/short to ground problems when they get wet. A good test of a salvage collision rebuild is to take it to a car wash and get an undercarriage treatment. Problems from leaving the car in Neutral too long aside, if there are no warning lights, then most likely all connectors are water-tight.

    Warranty coverage can be a crap shoot. Toyota certainly has the right to limit/refuse coverage in an area that has sustained impact damage, warranty coverage or not. This is extremely common with A/C systems, where a problem reveals itself months after the fact. On the other hand, coverage on emission components is supposed to remain intact.

    On to your car, a 2005 #6 with salvage title and 130,000 miles. There is a discount due to the salvage title, so it is probably in the same range as the one with 180,000 miles -- $8000 +/-. Theft titles are unusual because the car is hard to steal and is completely unappealing to young joyriders. Again, it all comes down to look and feel.
     
    #16 seilerts, Sep 13, 2011
  17. suprat04r

    suprat04r Junior Member

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    it seems like the 2004-2005 didn't come with a backup camera?

    only 2006+ models?
     
    #17 suprat04r, Sep 14, 2011
  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Correct but it's part of an option package on 06+ models. I've personally been in one newer than an 06 (but pre '10) w/o backup camera (and no SKS nor aux in put jack, for that matter)
     
    #18 cwerdna, Sep 14, 2011
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