Production 2012 Prius Plug-In Set for Frankfurt Debut - 77% increase in MPG

I read this today as well....it sounds a bit "fishy" to me. Not that the PR is wrong, but that they made the test with the high capacity battery full.... the EU CE tests for CO2 and fuel consumption are already questionable as they are (but are OK for reference in relative terms), but are surely not OK for plug-ins.
If the high capacity battery were empty, then they must have changed something radical in the ICE or the HSD as a whole....otherwise I see no reason why the CO2 should have to be half of the current Prius....

 

Does the EU have a finalized test for plug-ins yet?

 

why wouldnt they use the batteries? Thats the reason you are paying a lot of extra money for the car.

In any case, tests are prescribed by the govt, they dont get to say much in it.

I believe new plugin tests will be out by 2013, we had someone post info here.

 

PHVs should be tested with full batteries. We just can't draw conclusions on how it will perform in US test without knowing the test protocols. The 77% can be do to the test being in EV mode for 77% of time, and it does no better than a Prius once out of it.

The Ampera is rated 147 mpgUS on the same test. Did they announce the emissions?

 

We don't know that until we know the specs of the car. If it uses some or all of the battery for regen then the car will be more economical due to using the motor for propulsion more.

If it gets the tweaks the v got it will handle better and be faster. If it gets to use more battery it will be less HP starved and accelerate faster too.

If it does none of that, yes you are correct, if it does some of that it will affect the standard operation.

 

I expect improvements. I'm just pointing out we can't make a claim of how much in the EPA test cycle from the EU results withing out knowing the EU test protocol.

Assuming these reports use the best number, the Volt is 95mpge and 40mpg on the EPA. The window sticker also includes a break down based on miles between charges. We have only one number for the Ampera(European Volt) and Prius PHV. Without the details behind where the number comes from, while not as outlandish, it's marketing spin like GM's 230mpg figure.

 

you definetly cant tell anything from EU cycle... it is so old and useless anyway.

 

Not much longer!

 

For anyone that was in San Diego on Thursday night when we had the massive power outage (all of San Diego county, Camp Pendleton, South Orange County, and parts of Arizona), the Prius PHV or any EV or plug-in with an AC power outlet that could support a refrigerator would have been of huge value. Hundreds of grocery stores and restaurants lost millions of dollars in refrigerated inventory. One barbeque restaurant in San Juan Capistrano (Bad to the Bone BBQ) lost $15,000 in meat when their backup generator failed (the owner was interviewed on television). Anyhow, for an individual at home, being able to support your food refrigerator from your Plug-in or EV would have been of great value.

 

Rybold: +1

Working for a national grocery chain, I know all too well the outcome of multi-hour or day's long power outages. We've had 8 losses this year alone (um, no generator for some reason). But at the end of the day, what's important is that the ice cream at home stays frozen and I can get to my email. Well that, and for general safety, etc.

Whatever the extra charge is for the home plug Prius option, if offered, I will pay it for my PHEV (when I move to the genIV PHEV).

Please, Toyota, don't only offer that in your homeland.

 

I agree that a 120V AC outlet would be a valuable feature.
I suspect that in the wake of the tsunami/nuclear disaster it will be a
major sales point in Japan.

For reasons never given, the rest of the world got the Gen II EV mode
switch and we didn't. Toyota never said why. But many thought that
there was a fear that with the switch EV mode would be overused with
resulting low overall MPGs. (Some of us have installed aftermarket
switches and have said repeatedly that having it is no MPG silver
bullet.)

For the 120V AC outlet, does Toyota feel that there is a good chance it
would be overused/abused in North America?

My question in the aftermath of Hurricanes Irene and Lee is, could you
run a basement sump pump? Not at the same time as the refrigerator.

All that said, we did get the EV mode switch in the Gen III.

 

One thing I want to see is that does Toyota re-program the way the hybrid drive system works to take full advantage of the lithium-ion battery pack in the Prius PHEV. In short, run the gasoline engine a lot less, especially after a downhill drive.

 

We already know that will happen with power delivered. EV is enhanced quite a bit. I climbed the steep residential hill near my house with the PHV, from a dead stop at the bottom to 45 mph effortlessly then maintained the climb at that speed... without the engine motionless the whole time. Try that with a cordless model.
.

 

The prototype model does that and result in a boost in MPG beyond 75.

The blending of both gas and electric reduces the battery usage to half of what the Leaf need. Leaf uses 34kWh to go 100 miles but blended plugin like Prius PHV uses only 17kWh/100mile.

This means the 14 EV miles range could be extended to 28 miles in blended mode (when gas engine is running). A small battery can last 28 miles while the recharge takes only 1.5 hours. Gas is automatically blended in when you need a burst of power or during high speed driving so there is no fear of range or dirty tail pipe emission. Prius has the lowest tailpipe emission of any production car with combustion engine.

In summary, both gas and electric get boosted because they work together. Each has strength and weakness so by working as a team, the result is synergy. Toyota has done a great job exploiting strengths of both gas and electric while keeping the cost down by balancing a lot of variable.

 

Q. Does that mean: If a trip is longer than 13 miles, blended mode is more efficient than pure EV?

 

In general, yes. It does not have to do with the length of the trip but the speed. If the trip is more than 13 miles, you'll likely be on the highway driving fast.

Wayne Brown provided the energy necessary to drive at various speed. Based on that, I applied it to the 3.56 kWh in the Prius PHV battery pack to get the ball park range.

	Column 1
0	MPH Watt hours per mile Range (Miles) Power (kW) % of Energy used to Overcome Aerodynamic Drag
1	40 152.8 23.3 6.1 29.80%
2	45 181.3 19.6 8.2 31.90%
3	50 190.8 18.7 9.5 37.30%
4	55 202.9 17.5 11.2 42.50%
5	60 215.5 16.5 12.9 47.60%
6	65 233.4 15.3 15.2 51.60%
7	70 250.3 14.2 17.5 55.80%
8	75 268.5 13.3 20.1 59.70%
9	80 287.8 12.4 23.0 63.40%

Once you go over 62 mph, more than 50% of the energy is used to push through the wind. That is also the speed Prius PHV is "geared" to blend the gas power. At 65mph, 15 kW (20hp) is necessary to maintain the speed. We know Prius 1.8 liter ICE can be most efficient (220g/kWh) from as low as 11 kW output. It still gets excellent efficiency (230g/kWh peak of Gen2 1.5L) as low as 8 kW output.



So at 65mph, ICE can provide 11 kW and PHV battery can add 4kW. If Toyota program the PHV to discharge the battery more aggressively, ICE can output 8kW and battery output 7kW without compromising too much gas efficiency.

Blending of gas and electric at 65 mph increases the battery powered range to about 30 miles (7kWh from 3.56kWh). Without the ICE, we can see the EV range is 15.2 miles at 65 mph from the table above.

 

Battery management in the plug-in will have to be completely different than that of the Prius if the driver is to have any control over the battery/ICE.

 

I want two dials or adjustments. One that allows me, the driver, to adjust what speed I want the gas engine to turn on at, and a second dial that allows me to adjust how much the pedal has to be pressed down before the gas engine turns on at speeds when the engine is off. And, of course, the car should have a default/factory/automatic option.

Why? Because I know what my trip is going to be like. Maybe I'm on a winding country road with a speed limit of 55mph. When I'm cruising at 55, I want the engine to do the work and conserve the battery for when the car is accelerating or dips below a
certain speed. On other trips, I may set it differently. It all depends, and different drivers have different driving styles. I think the driver should have control over these two dials/adjustments.

 

I am hoping if Toyota keeps the ECO mode as a selection, that mode will have a more aggressive use of the battery for acceleration at the expense of environmental comfort and would be used for strictly mixed mode driving.

 

The PiP "mod" has to appeal to mainstream buyers who presumably do not spend as much time thinking about the car as you or I might, and are fairly ignorant.

I think a fair compromise will be a selector that toggles between 'hybrid' mode and 'EV mode.'