Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

If you want the new Prius PHV .... Yep $40K!!!

 

For the new Prius PHV the price is $39,500, your thoughts now?

 

The standard trim is $29,500 with tax credit. It is as loaded as a fully loaded Volt.

 

not true, although it is well equipped, a fully loaded volt is only 2 or 3 features off from a PHV advanced, and the volt has better mpge, more torque, and much longer AER. The PHV will have more utility with the 5th seat and more storage room.

 

Sure but the standard Prius PHV also has features not found in the loaded Volt as well.

- Touch Tracer
- 3 Doors Smart Key
- No need for the $1,000 (plus installation fee) fast charger due to the much shorter recharge time
- Longer battery warranty with e-ATPZEV (HOV lane access)

 

Not to mention much better CS mileage and a better brand that is bundled with better reliability.

 

There is no requirement for an L2 charger ($490, BTW). The shorter recharge time would be appealing if it didn't come at the expense of range.

 

3,790-mile trip shows how a Chevy Volt can burn more gas than a Prius!

3,790-mile trip shows how a Chevy Volt can burn more gas than a Prius

 

Thanks for the correction. The L2 charger is $500 and installation fee is $1,000. I got it the other way around.

I agree that recharge time and range are trade-offs. It is something many Volt fans ignore and purely focus on the range. It is "intellectually dishonest" according to you.

If you don't drive more than 15 miles every 1.5 hours recharge, there is no advantage in having a bigger battery.

 

My local electrician only charged me $200 to install the level 2 charger (so total cost installed was $750 with shipping). I actually think its a shame most prius owners may never upgrade to experience the convenience. I also think it means there will be less pressure from them to upgrade charging infrastructure in general as it is barely required.

I think the full charge faster is just misleading in general. Its like saying I can fill my tea cup from the same spigot faster than you can fill your big gulp so tea cups are better. The speed is limited by the spigot not the container, and as noted prius owners are less likely to get the faster charger.

In 1 hour on my level 2 I get 10 miles of range, in 1 hour on my level 1 I get 4 miles of range. The prius is likely to charge just as fast for the same range.

 

Volt needs faster charger more because it can drain it faster and gas mileage using premium fuel is at disadvantage. Therefore, the price of the fast charger should be added when comparing to Prius PHV.

If you charge often and drive many short trips, the point of having bigger battery evaporate and penalty with the weight and extra upfront cost starts to kick in.

 

I think USB's point is that if a Volt owner does not invest in a 240V charger, there is that much more dead battery weight to carry around.

 

If you charge more frequently you'll really want the hard mounted charger for convenience.

Going to the trunk to pull out the EVSE for one overnight charge is one thing, pulling it out and putting it away again 3-4 times a day will be another.

 

those $1000 charger options is one way to do it. here is a $300 option that includes metering.

this is a bit slower, only charges 240 volts at 12 amps so there is a drawback... then again, should i repeat this is the three hundred dollar option?

 

^^ I think you should have paid a bit more to have the hole cut accurately.

 

LOL!! ya, oh well i was close.

actually i am renting so mod options were limited. what i did is took an existing 20 amp plug. changed it to L-20 and used it a few weeks. then saw the metering option. so got the meter and put it on top of the plug. so only have to put two small screws into the sheet rock (how many garages have you seen that were finished?? i mean like taped, textured AND painted!!)

any way... My Nissan Leaf Forum • Metering my 240 Modded EVSE

 

That is absolutely true, and might even have merit if there were L2 chargers at every streetcorner. Or are you planning to wrap/unwrap the EVSE every time you use the car? Or only use it on trips that would be nicely served by a bicycle?

You guys would be wetting yourselves if they came up with 25 or 35 miles EV @ 32k and wouldn't have said a word about the weight (they could have done it with the same weight as the preproduction cars and noone complained about those) and you know it. Stop trying to spin the little battery as some kind of advantage.

I have 240 in my garage already so my installation cost would be zero if I saw any need for it but I don't. I drive around during the day and plug it in at night.

It's dead weight if you don't use it (like a 300 mile Tesla Model S) but that has nothing to do with L1 vs L2 charging.

 

This is all fine and dandy if you assume the Prius uses the same charge as a Volt. GenII's that have been modified by owners with plug in kits achieve better wh/mi than the volt does. So after filling your teacup you can drink it for longer and go further than putting the same teacup filling in your big gulp. If you only need to go teacup size distances, then no gas just like the volt. If you have to go something between teacup and big gulp, then the volt seems like a better choice. If you have to go further than both, the prius is the clear winner hands down.

My commute is a couple miles each way and then 180miles every few days at night. Unless I buy a Tesla, the Prius will do the next best. I would still rather have a Leaf over a Volt though, but I wouldn't use it as much as someone else could so forgoing that for now.

 

So the argument is now down to the hassle of recharging? So you'll pay $10k more for convenience? Wouldn't Leaf make more sense then?

Right-sizing is the key for plugin hybrid. You don't give up one back seat nor interior room yet still get the benefits of both EV and HV.

Obviously Volt does not achieve that. It has 1/2 of the EV benefit (vs. Leaf) and very minimum HV benefits.

 

Hassle is an argument, but not the only one.

To be clear the Volt is more efficient in CD mode than a PHV prius, by about 7%, so trips upto 15 miles the Volt wins. From 15-35 miles you're getting 49 mpg in a PHV or 93 mpge in a Volt; Volt wins. At 64 miles out the PHV has burned at least 1 gal of gas, the Volt will make it to 72 miles before burning the same amount; Volt wins. After the second gallon PHV is out to 113 miles and the Volt is at 109; prius catches up and wins from there on out.

On trips less than 100 miles the Volt is more efficient than a PHV.

In the same range category the Leaf is more efficient than a Volt (wide margin).

Plus the Volt has more torque than a PHV and from all accounts I've read is more fun to drive, and delivers pure EV driving experiences throughout the CD operation.

The prices after federal tax credits are directly comparable ($30-38k PHV; $33-38k Volt).

Some people will need a 5th seat and want more storage, they should get a PHV. Some people will want to minimize oil consumption and have a more pure EV experience, they should get a Leaf if they can or a Volt.

It doesn't have to be a winner or loser situation. They are both great cars and we are all better off the more of each are on the road.

What I like the most about what we have learned in the last week or so is that anyone in the market for a Volt has a choice to compare to a Prius PHV, but the answer is not so clear cut as to always have a clear winner. In my mind that competition will be better for both cars in the long run.

Also while I appreciate and respect Toyota's long track record with the tech, I also respect that GM out of the gate has at the least matched Toyota's third gen and then some effort.

I have no doubt now that the Volt will be a success.