PICC PHEV conversion (conversation with PICCs owner)

Good info, thanks.

I seem to remember one company that would install the non-OEM pack in the Prius *before* the title was transfered from the dealer, and in that way the car was eligible for government subsidy, and perhaps HOV access today ?

If Kim can do the same I imagine his market will be considerably greater.

 

A PHEV system should be under $5,000 installed for the minimum of 20 miles EV range. Anything over is not worth it. You will not get your money back on the fuel savings unless you drive it for 200,000+ miles. The break even point could take as long as 15 years. There's a PHEV calculator somewhere in the forum.

I can guarantee you that the PICC system will not qualify for the California green HOV sticker. It requires that the battery be warrantied for 10 years or 150,000 miles to qualify. There's no aftermarket conversion kit that can even come close to that.

The contactor type PHEV is probably the best type of plugin. I'm tired of converter type. The cooling fans are loud. On hot days it over heats and eventually burn out.

Ask yourself a few questions before forking out the cost of a used car to get your Prius plugable. What's the main goal of the conversion? strictly EV driving or just being able to get 100+mpg/1000+ mile tank. If your main goal is EV driving, then you have no choice but to fork out the big bucks for the high capacity pack. If 100+mpg is the goal, then a smaller pack with less current output would be suffice. It doesn't take alot of external electrical assist to get 100+mpg. Enginer's converter output is about 14-17 amps. With that little assist, people are getting around 80-100mpg in blended mode. A 4KW contactor system with batteries rated at 2C is capable of providing about 30 amps of assist. That's good for at least 100mpg for 30-40 miles blended mode.

I've talked to the guys from Plugin Supply at Green Drive Expo. Their Gen 3 kit is contactor based. The 4KW kit uses batteries capable of 10C discharge. That's good for 160 amps of assist. Their 4KW system can do moderate EV acceleration and EV driving. The range is suppose to be around 20 miles. Their system costs about $5,500. Their system is parallel so it can be turned off and revert back to OEM none plugin. Their system is capable of regen into the PHEV pack. Their obstacle right now is getting the ICE to spin without using fuel when passing the 45mph point.

The main drawback for contactor system is cost. It's gotta be affordable. Enginer 4KW kit is cheap at around $2,500-$3,500 They've sold well over 600 units in the 2 year operation. During the 2010 anniversary sale, they've sold over 100 units in 1 month for as little as $2,000 for 4KW kit. Last I heard, the Plugin Supply system sold a little over 100 systems since they started converting Prii. Given the cost of PICC kits, I doubt they've done any better. Hymotion kit probably done better than PIS and PICC since it's crash tested and some are installed by Toyota dealers.

Make the kit affordable. $4,000 for a 4kw kit, $7,000 for a 10kw kit. With these costs, consumers will have a chance of recuping the cost of the kit within the vehicle's service life.

You can't base the cost of conversion kits on the cost of OEM plugin over the none plugin because with OEM plugin you're not only getting the plugin. You're also getting the HOV sticker, federal tax incentive, a mid model year refreshed with updated/new features and options, 10 year 150,000 mile warranty on the battery, a more powerful EV acceleration and a noise maker even though you don't want it.

 

Enginer system will never spike at 150a. The converter max out at 5KW and runs mostly at around 3.5KW-4.5KW. The log file indicates a current draw between 50-80 amps. Mostly around 55-70 amps.

The PICC system is too much too late. They should have made the system available at least a year ago. Now that Toyota has came out with Plugin Prius, why settle for imitation?

There's too much technology going into the PICC system that most people don't really need and it drives up the cost.
J1772 charging port and 3.3kw L2 charger are nice but is it capable of both level 1 and level 2 charging? If not then consumers are forced to fork out another $1k-3k just for the level 2 charge station at home. Toyota's onboard charger can handle both level 1 and level 2.

According to the PICC site, EV World Plug-In Conversions "the lowest priced model (8 mile EV-range) targeted to cost $8000 installed" 8 grand for 8EV miles? You're looking at 50K for an 2012 Five with Advance Tech Pack with the 42 mile conversion kit. And all you can get is $1,660 back from Uncle Sam.

PIS kit's can do almost everything PICC kits can do at only 1/2 to 2/3 cost.

Don't get me wrong, PICC is by far the best plugin kit for Prius and it's the kit that I would rather use. However, the cost is out of almost everyone's reach. If you want to sell it, make it affordable.

 

Is PICC upgrading rear suspension for the added weight? I believe Hymotion conversion includes it.

 

The added options of the newer PICC systems might give me some real possiblilties to my 2009 Prius package 5. It doesn't make sense for me to trade in or sell it just to get a base 2012 PIP ( I am on a "fixed" income). I got a great deal on it and it only has 24,000 miles.
I met Ken Adelman at the San Diego Auto Show in 2009 about I week before I bought my Prius. He was at his display booth showing off his plug in demo.. It costs $12,500 then and he told me that "you will never get your money back in gas savings" on it. I was tempted to buy other plug in systems but I was worried about the reliability of some of the systems from some Priuschat posts. I didn't want my new car breaking down with a cheaper plug in system. My wife would never let me live it down if I had to get a towtruck. Their price went up to $13500, so that put it out of my price range for sure. I was waiting anxiously like thousands of other were for Toyota's final pricing and options and range announcement. The base price Plug In Prius with the installed options is about $3-4000 more than I was willing to pay. I can't get the tax deduction. I am going to explore the PICC.

 

They upgraded the rear springs as part of the install on the Ni-MH install. I have every reason to believe they will be doing the same for the new systems, at least for the largest pack which would be "similar" in weight but twice the miles.

 

Wow these conversions are VERY impressive, PICC really needs to hurry up and make them available, they're too late to the market, the Prius PHV is on sale soon(ish)...

 

I talked to Kim twice today. The 1st call was a bit of bad timing, he was driving/parking and was late to a meeting. I mentioned reading about his latest news here on Priuschat (mitch672). He was a little surprised that his conversation with mitch672 made it to priuschat.
He called me back this evening.
Forgive me for my technical ignorance, I will try to give a brief summary of what we discussed without giving out too many rumors or misquotes. Most of what he told me is the same as he told mitch672.
He said that systems should be out in January, that they are capable of 70 mph in electric. What stood out most to me was that the systems probably will be CARB certified and have the 10 year, 100,00 mile warranty.
(I didn't see that one coming)
:cheer2:
He said that the smallest pack (around 15 miles) might replace the stock battery.
I am not very interested in buying the smallest pack.
The price ranges he mentioned will probably be too high for most people including myself, but I am VERY interested in the 21 and 28 mile packs. The biggest pack's (42 miles) price would probably push me towards considering purchasing a Leaf (I know apples and oranges comparison) or some other future EV.
I think that they are a bit expensive but the best systems.
One thing going for PICC and Kim is that they are local to me and I met him almost 3 years ago when I was researching hybrids and narrowing my choice down to Prius. I never regretted buying it.
Theoretically, I could have a plug in Prius with the new PICC system before the 2012 PIP is released, my finances willing.