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Thinking about exercise strategies.

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daniel, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I was a sedentary kid. Being lousy at sports (weak, uncoordinated) I was treated by other kids with the cruelty typical of children, and developed a contempt for all physical activity.

    When I was 35 I started jogging to help control my weight. Within a year or so I was running 3 miles a day with an occasional 6 miles and a day off every 5 to 7 days. My blood pressure dropped from borderline high to healthy. I ran around a 9:30 per mile pace. Sometimes a bit faster or slower. That remained more or less unchanged, except for a few years when I blew it and gained weight, then got my weight back down and resumed.

    Now I'm 63 and cannot do as much as I did. I gained 30 pounds and 9 times out of ten could not even manage to run, and mostly used an exercise bike instead. (I lack the balance to ride a real bike.) In February I joined Weight Watchers and I've lost about 17 lbs., and I'm still on the program. I'm starting to jog more regularly again, but instead of a 9:30 pace, I'm mostly running a 13:20 pace, and once I kept up a 13:00 pace. Your maximum pulse rate diminishes with age, so I'm still jogging at around the same percentage of my max as I used to, but in actual bpm my exercising pulse is much lower.

    So I used to run 3 miles, and did it in just under half an hour. Based on my reading (maybe out of date, but when I started jogging Ken Cooper's Aerobics book was the authority) 3 miles was the recommended distance for basic cardiovascular health. But I also read that half an hour a day is ideal for c-v health.

    So my dilemma is: Should I aim to run 3 miles, which now takes me 39 to 40 minutes, way over the half hour, and much more tiring than 3 miles used to be; or should I aim to run for half an hour, even though it comes out to only around 2.25 miles at my present rate?

    As I get back into jogging regularly and lose another 8 lbs., which will get me back to my short-term goal of 5 lbs over what I weighed when I was 40, my pace will improve, but it will be nowhere near what it was when I was 40.

    Kind of wondering if my long-term goal should be to get back to 3 miles, or if I should just stop at 30 minutes.

    Any gerontology exercise experts out there?
     
  2. Roadburner440

    Roadburner440 Member

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    I am no expert, but being in the military somewhat makes me a fitness guru as we are tested every 6 months... I would think at your age if you have not been running consistently for awhile that it would be better off to start walking the 3 miles or so.. I more or less try to ride my road bicycle more than anything to try and reduce damage to my joints over longer periods of time. Running I usually run a mile and a half in about 11-12 minutes, and then I will walk 4 or 5 miles. That takes me a little over an hour, but if you are trying to lose weight that is the best way to do it in my opinion. Personally I run for distance, so if it takes me longer to go the distance I want to go I just keep going.. Eventually you will get faster and be able to do it in under 30 minutes again. The problem with running shorter distances, and trying to work your way up (like I have tried and messed me up awhile back) is that your body will want to shut down when you try to go farther.

    I cannot recommend cycling enough.. Before we had our Prius I used to ride my bicycle 24 miles round trip to work everyday. So I was in excellent cardiovascular shape. You do not burn as many calories as running, but like I said above it is definately better for your body in the long term. Also a proper diet is in order for you to lose the weight. I used to be pretty fat (I am 5' 6", and was 230LB ), but now I am down to 173 looking to get down somewhere in the 160's. Need to eat plenty of lean meats, and vegetables everyday. I find myself going to Publix to get fresh asparagus, green beans, and the like. Sam's Club also sells some very tasty BBQ chicken breasts.. I also occassionally eat pork.

    Probably my last tid bit of advice for you to help you out with running is to get a good pair of running shoes. I was running in New Balance shoes which have worked for me for a number of years. Recently though my knees started bothering me so I wound up getting a new pair of shoes. I highly recommend the Brooks brand GTS-11 shoes. Can be had for $99 and work very well. I got mine from Dick's Sporting Goods.. Also from there you should get a paid of the Nike Dri-Fit cushioned socks.. It is $15 for 3 pair, but I guarantee you won't regret it. Until they get broken in it feels like you are running on a cloud. Plus it cut about 20-30 seconds off my mile and a half time as my legs did not feel as fatigued when running.

    For me I was not a sedentary kid up until I hit my late teens, and since then I fell into the cycle of being lazy. So I can sympathize with you there. It really sucks being able to watch other people eat anything they want, and not gain any weight.. Me personally over the last few years I have been constantly in a cycle of gaining/losing weight. I have finally had enough though, and I am just making the life style changes that I have to in order to stay fit. Hopefully you find this helpful. I know I can be pretty long winded at times, but try to get the best information that I can to people.
     
  3. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    it is never too late to learn riding bike. You can ride bike longer then running, it has less impact on your joints, and the best part is you can modulate your effort far better then running.

    That aside if your goal is to burn fat longer exercise at lower intensity (~60% of VOmax) are better. It takes at least 20min of constant effort to start burning fat calories.

    At 63 your VOmax is 220-63= 157, so your target rate ~122(?). Other way to to find your lactic acid threshold and then run ~10bpm less good luck
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Couple of thoughts--your knees and joints are not going to get any healtier over the next several years. Running is fine, but it's high impact.

    Consider an eliptical, very low impact, the computer stuff really helps you monitor your HR, you can easily adjust the intensity to allow you to go for whatever time goals or caloric goals you might have. it's a year 'round option as well which is nice. My wife and I recently purchased a nice "Smooth" brand for $1200 and are very happy with it.

    At your age I'd go for lower intensity, longer duration with a focus on cardiovascular fitness rather than higher intensity/high calorie.
     
  5. J5A

    J5A Active Member

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    As long as you elevate your heartrate for 30 minutes 4-5 times a week you'll see and feel an improvement. You don't have to run 3 miles to get results.
    I passionately despise running. Instead, I speed walk 2 miles which is better on my joints. It raises my HR from 65bpm to 140bpm which is in my fitness zone. A good HR monitor is a great tool to use.
    I also use nautilus/weight machines and do ab work for toning and strength.
    Congrats on joining WW. My sister recently became a lifetime member.
     
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I second Fusco's warning about the long term damage running can do to knees, particular ularly if you are running on pavement. I used to love playing racket ball and squash for hours on end, but my shoulders gave out whe I hit 40, and I have not found any exercise I enjoy anywhere near as much.

    To your question: it is the wrong one. Find the exercise you will enjoy and keep at for the next 20 years every day. Plus or minus minutes or meters is far less important.
     
  7. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Before you give up on cycling altogether - I know, the state of your knees and your sense of balance don't help - have you tried a recumbent tricycle? Catrike and Greenspeed are two manufacturers you could look into. Balance shouldn't be an issue, and as long as you're not pounding big hills, your knees will be fine. Well, better than they would be from jogging.

    If your long term goal is to be fitter and healthier - as should everyone's - then don't worry about arbitrary limits like 30 miles or half an hour. If you've not exercised in awhile, then it will take time to get back to the levels you were used to. And once a certain distance or time becomes routine, you need to increase it. Diet plays a huge role - proper nutrition without junk is vital.

    Walking can be very healthful for both body and mind. And so can a companion - my prescription is a dog. :) (And a trusty neighbour who will care for them while you are away.)
     
  8. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Thanks for all the replies.

    I don't need eating advice. I'm in Weight Watchers, and I'm losing weight. I've always eaten a relatively healthy diet, and just needed the motivation and system to eat less, which WW has provided.

    Actually, it is. I've never had good balance, and if you don't learn as a kid, it does not become innate, it's just a skill. I rode a bike for a while, and had enough close calls with death that I got smart and quit.

    I am an exercise addict. I don't need motivation. The exercise bike is boring as hell, and I get on it and ride it for 45 minutes, as hard a pace as I can maintain for the time, ON THOSE DAYS when for whatever reason I cannot run. (With days off as my experience tells me I need.) I've used elipticals, but they hurt my knees: the geometry is wrong for me, and not adjustable. But jogging is the exercise I love. I FEEL better when I'm jogging regularly than when I'm making do with other exercises. (I feel lousy when I'm not exercising, which is why motivation is not an issue. During the relatively long period when weight, and a heart irregularity, prevented me from jogging, I got on the exercise bike without fail.)

    Though weight has always been an issue for me, my focus on exercise has always been c-v fitness. If I get enough exercise for c-v fitness, and eat the quantity I should, I'll lose weight, or maintain when appropriate.

    So my only question was whether I'd be better off aiming to maintain my former distance, or my former duration. Or maybe a compromise between the two.

    SageBrush: With all due respect, I asked the question that I wanted an answer to. The other stuff I already know.

    J5A: Thanks for actually offering an answer to my question. And congrats to your sister for making WW lifetime. I expect to reach my goal early in 2012, since I've noticed that the closer I get to my goal, the slower the weight comes off, and since slower weight loss is healthier and easier to keep off. Six weeks of maintaining after that and I get lifetime status. I plan on staying after that to help to keep it there. It's nice that WW is free once you get lifetime, as long as you keep the weight off.

    Again, thanks to everyone.
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Hyo: I've looked into recumbent trikes. They are very expensive, and I don't have the garage space, and the cars scare me. On city streets I'll stick to my electric car.

    Walking is fun. I walk a lot. But walking does not get my heart rate into the target zone (except when I'm walking up the sides of steep mountains in B.C.) and speed walking actually hurts my knees more than jogging does. I won't quit walking, but I still need an aerobic exercise.

    I appreciate everyone's concern for my knees, and perhaps some day I'll have to quit running and stick with the exercise bike or the NordicTrak machine. But I've actually had more knee trouble cycling than jogging. I know, that's not supposed to happen. I also damaged my shoulders swimming. That's not supposed to happen either: swimming is supposed to be "gentle" exercise. Jogging is what I like, and what feels good, and what I can do now that I'm getting closer to my healthy weight.
     
  10. stevemcelroy

    stevemcelroy Active Member

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    If you wind up getting an exercise machine down the road you should take a look at arc trainers made by Cybex. They are expensive but I have found that they are super comfy to work out on. On a typical tread mill my knees and back hurt like heck in 30 minutes. On an arc trainer after and hour they are just fine.
     
  11. J5A

    J5A Active Member

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    If you haven't done so already, I highly recommend visiting a nice running store to get properly fitted for running shoes. The ones that were selected for me have been THE best shoes I've ever worn. I no longer experience fatigue in my calves and my feet never hurt during or after.
    Best wishes.
     
  12. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    I can testify to that.

    In 2005, I hit the gym when my BP was 160/100 - dangerous. Also weighed 215lbs when my ideal weight is about 165 - in borderline obese territory. Anyway, my BP is around 130/85 - 120/80 when working out and at 175lbs.

    I used the eliptical a lot. Not only is it low impact, but gives the entire body a workout to burn calories fast....sometime I'd burn 1000 calories an hour.

    The only other low impact workouts aside from some form of cycling is swimming.

    Pulse watches are nice but you know you are in the target range (60%-80% of max heart rate) if you are breaking a sweat, yet not so out of breath you can't talk - rule of thumb.

    One thing I found out is the same routine, unvaried teaches your body to become energy-efficient...if only our cars could do that. ;)
     
  13. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I had to Google it to see what an arc trainer is. They have a couple of those at the gym I used to go to. Didn't work too well for me. I think maybe it's because I have short legs. The motion feels unnatural and uncomfortable. If I had the determination to use something that included arm strength, I'd drag out the old NordicTrack machine. The motion is similar, but more natural for me.

    Yep. Did that about 45 years ago. Good shoes are important. I've been jogging, with a couple of breaks, for a bit over 45 years. (One 5-year hiatus due to some bad lifestyle choices, and another 4 years or so that it was difficult because of my weight and my a-fib.) But I know what shoes work for me.

    The only thing I wasn't sure of was whether to try to aim for my old distance, or my old time, now that I'm losing weight and getting back into the range where I'm able to jog again.
     
  14. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Try both and see which works out better for you. You solved the problem in the past by setting up rotating goals, so the answer is most likely to return to multiple daily/weekly targets and find out which mixture works.
     
  15. Roadburner440

    Roadburner440 Member

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    If that's all you want to know just do what you are feeling comftorable with. For me some days I set up for distance, and if I am not feeling up to it then I aim for a minimum time. When I started back in June I far over did it and wound up injuring my lower back. Took me till almost the end of August after that to get up to 2 miles. If I could go back and do it all over again I would just start off speed walking, and continue on from there. Sometimes I almost think I get a better workout from walking than running as I am always covered in sweat after walking. Then again I do walk 2-3X the distance that I run.
     
  16. ursle

    ursle Gas miser

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    Something like this would be adequate;) won't hurt the knees, shouldn't fall over;)

    [​IMG]

    Exercise is a great way to condition the heart and muscles but diet is the only way to control weight.

    OK, so running around in a jogger-stroller might not be practical but getting in water and exercising is, spend an hour or two a day at the pool.
     
  17. J5A

    J5A Active Member

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    Along the lines of ursle^, have you tried swimming daniel? It's a great way to catapult you into fitness so you can start jogging with stronger cardio.

    It's ultra low impact on joints but super amazing for fitness. I dropped 6 lbs in just four 30 minute sessions/laps.
    I trained for an iron man(woman) relay this summer and still have my swimmer's body even though I haven't swam for four months.

    I hope your athletic shoes aren't 45 years old. ;)
     
  18. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    All the reliable sources say that to lose weight you must exercise AND limit your food intake. Neither one alone will be successful.

    If you really mean to say that you lost 6 pounds in four half-hour days of exercise, then what you lost was water, not fat. If you mean that you swam 2 hours a week over a period of time, then I can believe you.

    But see my post above in which I mentioned swimming: It may be low-impact, but that doesn't mean you can't hurt yourself:

     
  19. ursle

    ursle Gas miser

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    Hmm, testing for Parkinson's by asking if one rides a bike is a simple way to identify without embarrassment...
    Exercise is relative, it burns calories, it makes the heart and muscles stronger, gives the bones better flexion, but only caloric intake determines weight gain-loss.
    So your running may prove difficult (Parkinson's) and swimming is err, detrimental, back to plan A.
    [​IMG]
    Actually, if you enjoy roller skating and have a facility nearby you are in luck, with wrist guards (for safety) you can get excellent daily exercise with minimum duress. It's similar to swimming but only involves the legs and hips and is really a wonderful cardiovascular workout.
     
  20. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    Walking may be better.

    Long, slow distance will burn more fat calories (per mile, not per hour) than running will, according to various sources, such as:

    Covert Bailey, in "Fit or Fat"
    Google Answers: Exercise benefits of walking vs.running - look at the answer that quotes dr. Dean Ornish

    My definitely not-educated understanding of it is this: walking isn't as "efficient" as running, so your body has to burn more calories at a walk. Also, when you run, your pulse rate is higher, so your body is burning glucose to sustain itself. When you walk, and your pulse rate is lower, your body continues to burn fat, conserving the glucose in case you need to sprint or something. The liver, which is very important to determining which fuel you are using at any given moment, cannot use fat if you need too much energy at once - so, keep your heart rate below the trigger point, and you will burn more fat calories, making your body better at burning fat. Keep going above that point, and your body will keep conserving fat and burning glucose.

    I bought a heart rate monitor (Polar brand, with chest strap), and quickly discovered that I have a tendency to work too hard/walk too fast, and never burn fat! I've slowed down quite a bit, and my efforts are now actually paying off.