How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

have to echo that. part of Nissan's reasoning behind offering Carwings free for 3 years (that and its hardly worth paying for!) is this allows them to collect real data on people's driving habits and they have found that most (at least they have stated) do not need more than 100 miles.

now, i have to agree to a point in that its rare that you would need to go that far and best thing is to have a 2 car household. but the other thing i have to think is how would Nissan know what we do when we "dont" drive the Leaf? but that is another topic

 

I agree with you that it's rare for most people to drive hundreds of miles in one day.

I don't agree with you that a two car household is a reasonable answer to the lack of range problem. Lots of single people don't want to own two cars. It's quite an expense and isn't a cost effective solution.

 

wow, i think we be reading waaaay too much into these statements. i am not suggesting singles shack up with another to save the planet. in fact, when that happens we tend to err on the population issue

 

Solution is not necessarily 2 car households... When I was a wee lad who had just joined the military I would rent a car one weekend a month to go traveling since I used a bicycle back then as my primary source of transportation. I actually found car rental through Enterprise to be quite hassle free, and I just had to get a special insurance policy to cover their vehicle while I rented it which was also pretty cheap. Is all just ideas though.. Personally to me it doesn't really matter what people do. Eventually as Daniel has said gas prices will shoot through the roof, and I will tell them that I told you so. I have my Prius and Volt, and worst case scenario I have my bicycles as a backup if needed. Personally I was in much better shape anyway when riding my 110 miles a week on my Trek than after I got my Prius, so going back to my bicycle would not be a bad thing.

 

100 miles? I thought it was 37 miles (which is about what I went today in my Volt by chance).

My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - "No Market Need" for longer range EVs - Nissan's Mark Perry
and
Nissan Says Long-Range EV Unnecessary - AutoObserver

"The data shows that the typical Leaf driver averages 37 miles a day in the car"

 

Does anyone else see the problem with a study of how people use cars that can not go over 100 miles a day and finding that they are not driven more than 100 miles a day?

 

It would be quite odd if the study found that the average Leaf driver drove 140 miles a day
That said, I did find it interesting, and quite logical when you think about it, that the average daily distance was exactly half the EPA range for the Leaf. Which is exactly what you would suspect.

This may also indicate few people are charging during the day (a good thing if you ask me).

 

I think once more of the DC quick charge stations start popping up, and peoples workplaces/stores start installing L2 charging that you will start seeing the averages go up. Until then though of course for the Leaf the distance will be half since you have no backup once the battery is gone. I would be interested to see a study done in California where they already have some infrastructure in place to see what people there are doing with the cars... Like here in Jacksonville if I got a Leaf I would only be able to go 40 miles away from my home. Would be perfect regardless, but is nice in the Volt to know the gas motor is there when I need it, which has only been once in almost 2 and a half months now.

 

Note that a car whose maximum distance is the average that people drive, will be useful only to half of those people. Most 2-car families (people who already have two cars) could make do with one gas car and a Zap Xebra. But even before they learn that the Xebra is not a particularly safe car, everybody says "I need to go farther." My Xebra got a tremendous amount of attention. In the 4 years I drove it, hundreds of people told me how much they loved it, but not one single person said they would buy one. To get people to buy an EV you've got to give them far more range than they really need.

I agree this would be ideal. And if the train is electric, it could have chargers on board, so that your car would be fully charged when you get to your destination.

I am less optimistic than you are. Outside of the field of astronomy, where math rules, I've never seen a prediction for the future that came true.

A more likely scenario is that as gas becomes unaffordable, people will travel less and mass transit will replace personal transit both in-city and between cities. Small towns that have no public transportation to neighboring cities will die.

Here's a real problem that should scare us more than it does: Food production is so highly dependent on fossil fuels that as fuel becomes more expensive, so will food. We will have the technological capability to produce food, but it will be so expensive that people won't be able to buy it. People will not starve quietly. They will steal and they will riot. It will be very scary. A mere hundred years ago we grew our food with animal power, and farms grew their own fodder. A significant percentage of the population lived on the farm and was engaged in food production. Survival in a post-petroleum age could require a return to a rural life, AND a decimation of population numbers. Some time between tomorrow and 50 years from now, our entire way of life will collapse if we do not switch to a sustainable source of energy. Given the way politics works, I am not hopeful.

 

it is odd but definitely possible. there is a guy in N. Cali who drives 89 miles ONE WAY charges at work then drives the 89 miles home, 5 days a week.

 

Related to the previous post on a major goal being to keep the ride smooth with an electric dynamic feel by paying close attention to Noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH).

Where does the Volt go from here?

 

Academic: Decision Analysis Process Case Study

Decision Analysis Process Case Study: Should I buy a Chevrolet Volt or a Toyota Prius? « Baker Street Publishing

 

Typical GM decision making process. They focus on driving experience over weight, efficiency, cost and reliability.

Toyota focus on the entire ownership experience. Different stroke for different folks.

 

The first thing that hit me was this was the last desperate chance to do a comparison before the plug-in model came out.

Then the thought crossed my mind about Prius being so good it could compete directly with Volt even without a plug.

Following that came the reality that upcoming smaller model of Prius is the more appropriate no-plug comparison, since the current model of Prius is bigger than Volt.

The biggest shortcoming though is the heavy dependence on taxpayer funding. With the 1-year anniversary of the IPO coming up in just 2 weeks. Being $9 per share down is a big deal considering the government purchase 500 million of them. Taking that loss would be quite a bailout. Not getting a business-sustaining efficiency vehicle in return for the additional money spent beyond that really gets people thinking about what better means.
.

 

Volt's resale value is too high and Prius is too low. The price of gas (regular and premium) and the price of electricity was not disclosed. What's LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH?

CO2 comparison does not take account of upstream emission. If they did, it will tip in favor of the Prius.

 

What can you expect from a company that makes most of its money from gas-guzzling monstrosities? Even the car they tout as "efficient" and "environmentally friendly" has been DESIGNED to burn more gas and emit more pollution in return for less noise and a more "pleasable" ride.

And FWIW, I did not feel the Volt's ride was any better than my Prius, other than having a bit more acceleration. And I thought the Leaf had a nicer ride than either.

 

You guys are too funny. Could you twist things any more in your "favored" opinion? Have you checked at Toyota Tundra or Tacoma MPGs lately <grin>.

I love the quiet, smooth, and dynamic ride of my Volt. I forget what the ICE/GG sounds like it is so rarely used in most of our Volts. My wife didn't even know when it switched over when we first got the car. That is how quiet and smooth it is. Brilliant engineering and customer focus.

 

Can't agree at all.
Brilliant would be engineering the Volt to be more efficient after charge than it is.
Customer focus really would be providing 5 seat.

 

You are speaking from a 2.5 kids family and non-EV driver though. A lot of folks are driving by themselves or just with their spouse or just with 1 or 2 kids. It wouldn't matter to many Volt owners if it got 30MPG since the GOAL of the car is to drive electrically which is often forgotten or left out of the conversation. I'm up to 12.8 gal of gas in 7300 miles and there are many more stories just like that.

The Chevrolet Cruze is doing extremely well if you want 5 seats and good MPGs. Pros and Cons to every car and decision about that car by the manufacturer. They weighed them and pick the best options for that cars targeted GOALs. There is not one size fits all folks!

 

What about brilliant engineering, Scott?

30MPG is a very bad result for a hybrid, that even for a Cruze is achievable.

Charge sustain in a Volt is then what?
Certainly not brilliant, but a "lesser problem"...mmmm....
IMHPOV, a internal combustion engine should give its best push to the car, mainly by efficiency.