240v Home Charger

Your description reminded me of the situation with my lap top computer's AC adapters. I use my laptop at home and work as my primary computer. Thus, I tote it back and forth to work every day. I used to bring the single AC adapter that came with it back and forth too. I finally decided to break down and buy an additional AC adapter. That sure was a good investment!

The trouble with the PiP charger is that I'm sure it is a lot more expensive that my computer's AC adapter (probably 20x more!). Still, if I can charge at work, I'll certainly not like the PITA of having to bring the single charger with me all the time.

 

If the crawl space is open to moisture, you should use Watertight Flex for your conduit. Romex is spec'd for indoor applications. at this point it would be better just to buy the Watertight and use Rigid exterior grade conduit and exterior grade boxes for outdoor power runs. It's still an Erector Set, just with materials that would meet local Code requirements!
A 220 GFI might also be in order!

 

Right, I'm sorry, I was referring to Romex in a generic sense. I ran an outlet under the crawl space before, and I purchased outdoor-rated cabling. I don't recall if it was the Romex or another brand.

If I do this, I'll consult an electrician first, and I'll have him install the new breaker. Most likely I'll run a 110V circuit using cabling that I can upgrade to 220V when the price of the 220V home chargers become reasonable.

My Opinion: If you spend $1,000 for that charger, you're going to feel really stupid when the price drops to $250 in a year. $1,000 is simply price gouging. I work in the electronics business and nothing stays that expensive for long. There is not $1,000 worth of parts in those things. They're taking advantage of government-subsidized installation programs and I feel like it's a ripoff and I won't do it.

Ok, I feel better now.

 

+1
Oh I understand completely!
Good rant, however!

 

I just thought I would chime in here since I know a little bit about the EVS system. First the Prius comes with a J1772 connector which is the current standard for level 1 (110V) and level 2 (220 V) charging. It should be noted that the J1772 standard includes communication protocols that tell the car just how much current can be drawn from that particular EVS.

The J1772 is the standard used for current public charging stations and you can find locations (they are being rolled out slowly but there are some around) using apps like recargo.com or the carstations app for Android or iPhone. Some of these stations are free but some, like the one at Paula Casino just outside Temecula, CA are expensive (in this case $4 an hour).

Please note that you can do a partial charge without ruining the batteries, infact Nissan recommend only charging the Leaf to 80% unless you really need the range. So, a 1 hour charge will give you about 5 miles of EV range on 110v so you only need the fast charger if you are likely to want to get home and go more than 5 miles withing the next hour or so.

Noel

 

I am trying to envision the response from a motel proprietor when they see a power cord running out of a room to a plug-in car. I would think that real soon they would either (1) tell you to disconnect it, or (2) add a surcharge to your bill to cover their electric bill.

 

I totally agree

 

Do you (or anyone else) have a schematic or block diagram of one of these chargers? I'd like to know what all is inside them.

 

So does anyone have an idea of what the 110v unit costs if we wanted another one?

 

Unfortunately, I don't know of any but these are NOT chargers. The charger is inside the car. The units are called EVSE.

There are some pictures of the insides at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Inside the NA spec L1 EVSE and My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Inside the EVSE.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5784 was an EE trying to do his own cheaper (than pEEf's aka Ingineer's) modification of Nissan's L1 EVSE but he got into quite an argument w/pEEf and others due to doing things that were unsafe/defeating various safety features and violating J1772 safety related requirements/specs.

Eventually, the OP caved and changed the thread title (originally "$20 Panasonic trickle charge mod allows 240VAC @ 12 amps", I believe). I haven't been following this closely. I'm not EE and this is all way beyond my skill level but it might prove insightful to some.

Given that the Leaf is a widely deployed EV and has been shipping for nearly a year, the search for cheaper/alternative EVSEs is probably best carried out at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewforum.php?f=26. There's plenty of chatter there on this.

I stated in post #26:

Looking for extras or cheaper ones might be worthwhile...

 

I can provide a wiring diagram of an EVSE, and here it is

 

That's terrific! So, what's the magic at X1 and X3? Because everything else can be built pretty cheap. You bring in 240 Volts, a transformer supplies 24 V 1 Amp to a logic board that basically decides whether or not to supply high voltage current, and then the 240V input is "magically converted" into special magic ESVE energy

Screw this $1,000 nonsense, I'm going to build one of these myself. I've got four months until the car arrives.

 

Do you guys really need the special Toyota Charger? I would think with the standard connector anything would work.. I just ordered my 240V Voltec charger for $490+shipping today. So hopefully that will be installed before winter hits. $1000 for the charger+install would be pretty good anyway. I am looking to pay possibly 300-400 dollars and mine is a pretty simple installation. SPX wanted almost $1700 for the same install so.

 

That is interesting. I was hoping, though, that someone might have a schematic that identifies the internal components. It looks fairly complicated (and for safety purposes, might be worth $999).

 

in my opinion, you paid too much. I suggest that you cancel your order and wait a few months for prices to fall. In the meanwhile, have an electrician install a dedicated circuit and an outlet to the location you desire, so that you can be prepared.

Prices will fall, I promise.

 

Yes the price will come down to $250 - but not in a year. Afterall last year we were talking about the exact same thing (see MNL threads).

To get UL certified well constructed EVSE to $250 will take sometime. Just the J-1772 connector is quite expensive now. The fact that Chinese haven't decided on a standard doesn't help either. The economies of scale just aren't there, yet.

So, I think you may want to reconsider your "promise" about price drops.

$1,000 for std installed L2 EVSE is quite good (is it really installed ?).

 

This is a very informative discussion and good posts; still teetering on the 240/120 fence...

Jump forward a few years to the unforseen time when the PiP might be sold, would the 240v charger unit be a good selling point to include with the vehicle? Would it matter to a dealer if trading in? Would it only matter to a private sale buyer?

I guess you'd have to pay an electrician to de-energize the 240v line to keep the house in code specs, depending on county and state.

Would it be a selling point for the house if left in place?

 

if the house isn't in code spec when you go to sell it, it won't be while you're living there. why would you put in a non code outlet?

 

Well, we've been in our house 8 years, and since it was built in 1986, the codes have changed. Some of the renovations we've done have been a little more involved than we expected as the plumbing, electrical have had to be upgraded to pass current bldg codes. Could still sell as is if we didn't do any upgrading.

But as I read your question, i see that the 240v charging station just plugs into an outlet, which would stay with the house. For some reason i thought the 240v charger was directly wired to a line.

Still, couldn't you see the ad: 2br, 2ba, 240v charging sta.