PIP vs Volt

There are some basics (non-proplusion priorities) to consider. The back seat in Prius offers 2 more inches of legroom. That's a big deal for some. It makes the difference between compact & midsize quite clear.

A big deal for me with my Prius has been being able to stuff the cargo area with a 3-wheel recumbant bike and lots of cargo while also carrying 2 bikes on the back. There's no way you'd be able to do that with a Volt. It's too small inside and doesn't offer a flat surface for easily sliding large items in & out. There isn't a back bumper either, so the only way to carry bikes is via a much more expensive roof-rack rather than a simple one over the hatch.

My routine vacations up north and weekend escapes also benefit greatly from the HV performance. Volt's depleted efficiency simply cannot compete, nor can its engine emissions either.

You'll be quite impressed by the electric motor performance from PIP. It's a big difference from the 2010 and especially from the 2004. I've owned both, drove an early model plug-in last year, and placed my order. Good luck with the delivery wait.
.

 

Congratulations on reaching a decision.

It was easy for me because I needed a car 8 months ago, not early next year. Truth be told I'm looking forward to the choices and comparisons that will be available to me in 2014 when my Volt lease is up.

 

Same here.. Is why I pulled the trigger on the Volt myself. Not matter what you buy today unless it is a Tesla much better things are waiting down the road for us. Just a matter of bridging the gap till they get here. Although it does not look like the infrastructure is moving fast enough to be ready for a rush of EV's over the next few years...

 

For me, the best feature of the 2012 PiP is the California "green" carpool exemption sticker, which the Volt doesn't qualify for.

 

I thought I saw in the last few days that the 2012 Volt will now qualify.

 

Current 2012s shipping now don't but you can now order one that will, for delivery early next year (probably about the same time as the PiP).

 

They will have a special "Low Emission Package" that could qualify for the HOV lane. No word on how much more it will add.

There is $1,500 Clean Vehicle Rebate Project that both PiP and Volt can qualify for. Neither have been confirmed on their site because there is no official CARB certifications, yet.

 

I Know The Feeling -

Right Now I am considering The PIP - The Leaf and The Volt.

I have Great Arguments for all 3.

The PIP - I own 2 Prius Now and Love Them. My weekly mileage comes in at 100 to 150 miles a week. So I'll go with a PIP

But Wait -

Why Wouldn't the Leaf be the best choice in that case. I would never need fuel stabilizer. But what about a long trip if my other hald needs the car too ? Hmm Back to the PIP - But 40K?

I could lease a Volt for 350.00 a month. Looking at my weekly mileage that could work. And it burns off the fuel to prevent it from getting stale.

But What about the Bigger Picture ? Tomorrow

Technology will change a great deal in 3 years.

Today's 100 mile Leaf or PIP at 15 Miles or Volt's 35 Miles might be a joke in 3 years.

Can I see a 300 or 500 Mile Leaf or a 100 Mile PIP or Volt?

What would my RE-Sale Value be on Today's PIP, Leaf or Volt Be?

Would Today's PIP, Leaf, or Volt be worthless as a trade in 3 years.

Who would want a Leaf at 100 miles when the 2015 leaf will get 3 or 4 hundred mile range.

The lease of a Volt or a Leaf might be the best choices TODAY.

Since We have 2 cars the Leaf seems like the winner - BUT Something inside says What If?

 

Why not the 32.5k PiP with 2.5k tax credit? $30k.

Can PiP replace one of the Prius? If you get a Leaf, will you need to keep the existing Prii? That could be the deciding factor.

If you think a battery breakthrough is on the horizon (3-5 years), isn't it better to wait for the next gen?

I think next gen will improve but their highest priority is to lower the price as the tax credit would fade. I doubt you'll see a huge range gains.

 

Thanks - Good Points to consider But what about Tesla model s. 300 mile range today. What will the ranges be in 3 yrs?

 

A battery breakthru would cause the price of a used plug-in to soar. It would be an endorsement to the platform already used... which in the past has caused Prius to resell extremely well... as we've seen with previous generation models.

3 years is absurbly fast though, and it will take a trickle-up approach. Until you see amazing new rechargeable batteries in portable devices, don't even begin planning to see them emerge in the automotive industry until years later.
.

 

Tesla use 18650 cells to get the best bang for the buck. I think the high end model would use 3.4 Ah cells from Panasonic.

PEVE has 4.0Ah cells in the pipeline for 2013 using silicone anode. However, it has lower voltage so the capacity improvement is about 10%. Silicone has more potential so PEVE should be able to tweak further. These cells are not as durable so it may be awhile until Tesla switches.

As for automotive prismatic battery, you'll have to wait until 2020 for Volt's battery to cost $4k, Leaf $6k and PiP $1.1k. At that price prediction, PiP battery capacity (and range) could triple.

Prices are coming down steadily but slower than the industry requires for volume EV penetration. Various recent studies of Li-ion automotive battery costs have forecast an average price of $250/kW·h by 2020, a substantial reduction from the $350-$400/kW·h forecasted just a few years ago. According to Van Billinghen, a commodity 18650-series cell used in a laptop computer costs about $60/kW·h.​

Source

 

Ok in 3 years the leaf can go 300 miles and u are trading in your 100 mile leaf. what would the resale be? who would want to worry about 100 mile range when they can have 300 mile range?

 

So a lease would take care of all questions and worries about resale. So who has the best lease deal?
Do you agree Lease is the way to go in uncertain times?

 

I think the original article has a mis-print. The laptop Li-ion battery should be $600/kW-h , not $60/kW-h. If so, the Tesla -S will be selling for $30K.

 

Volt and Leaf are too big of a "risk" for you to buy. The lease price ($350/month @10k miles annual) may seem low but that's 42 cents per mile (plus down payment and fuel cost).

I think buying PiP and selling it privately 3 years later, is a better deal. Take some "risk" and have fun with the new toy. You'll save more money if you decide to keep it after 3 years.

What will save you the most money is, to stick with your current Prii.

 

Tripling capacity with no price increase in only 3 years simply isn't realistic... but imagine what that would do for used PIP... the aftermarket augumentation opportunities.
.

 

That sounds exactly right. The lease deals on the leaf and volt seem much better than buying. We will see if the prius phv is competitive. Some people are talking about high mileage, which does not seem appropriate for a plug-in lease. As long as the lease term miles are in line with your estimated milage it makes sense. Some people think prices will go up without the tax credit, but if you are an initial adopter, being able to get something new 3 years from now is a big advantage.

You are quite correct, a battery breakthrough would hurt resale value not make it go up. Why pay for yesterday's technology. IMHO the most likely thing will be stopping at around 120 mile range epa then reducing costs on a car like the leaf, and 40 mile epa on a car like the volt. The drive trains will likely get more refined and bugs worked out. I would expect a gen IV prius plug-in to have more range and perhaps higher speed electric miles.