Volt Sales Figures

PiP prototype can do full EV up to 62 mph. See this video starting at 2:00. PiP with 3 adults merged into a highway and CC set at 54 mph. It stayed in EV mode even when going uphill.

 

No, it isn't. ICE works for propelling most of the time (about 99% of the time). When its traction battery (small) is drained (after heavy traffic, as an example), ICE does come on to charge. Depending of the %SOC needed, and nominal capacity of the hybrid battery, we are talking about one or two hundreds of Wh. Hybrids only use gasoline for energy-source.
PiP does not charge it plug-in battery (at least the test version) with the ICE either 99% of the times.

 

During typical use in hybrid mode (low battery state of charge), the Volt appears to have a bias towards staying electric under 30 mph so it can "hide" the running of the gas engine during increased road noise at higher speeds. Of course, if you only drive under 30 mph the battery will eventually drop low enough that it will need to run the engine even at low speeds or when the vehicle is stopped. This is generally how the Prius operates as well.

Of course, if you happen to have built up enough battery charge (for example, regenerating during a long downhill section of road) then the Volt will stay electric up to any speed until the battery level drops to the minimal state of charge again.

 

Do you know what rpm it runs to recharge? Prius does it at around 1,300 rpm.

I think Volt will run at higher RPM because the ICE displacement is smaller and the battery needs more juice to power heavier, EV biased drivetrain.

I doubt Volt's ICE can provide much torque to the wheels the way planetary gears are set up.

 

Disagree. Prius ICE kicks in when at least 5-8kw is needed to propel, and most of it energy goes directly to wheels.
Prius battery is used as a batch for lower demands and blending.

 

I'm not quite sure how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but Jeff N and gwmort seem to know how their cars work.

:focus:

Safety Probe Just the Latest Problem for GM's Volt - WSJ.com

italics mine

 

Huh? Three hours in a PiP at 100 mph would be 300 miles with roughly 3 kWh of usable energy would mean the PiP was using about 10 Watts per mile to help drive the car. Not likely, and not useful.

Are you saying that the PiP is better because it recharges in 3 hours at 120v while the Volt takes 10 hours? That would be a silly argument since the Volt and PiP both charge at the same 12A rate at 120v and go the same distance on all-battery charge for the same charge time.

If you think 10 hours is too long to charge a Volt at 120v then just pull the plug after 3 hours and you will be able to drive the same electric distance as a PiP after three hours of charging. Except, you will have put the PiP battery through a full normal charge cycle while the Volt battery will only have charged up by less than 1/3 of a normal charge cycle.

 

Sure, if you accelerate briskly enough from a stop the gas engine will start up even at low speed in a Prius. If you drive more leisurely, you can typically get a Prius to make some road noise at 10,20,30 mph before the engine starts.

I will admit that the Volt may sometimes do a better job of hiding the engine noise when launching from a stop.

 

No, I don't know what the typical RPM of the Volt engine is versus a Prius during urban driving. It would be interesting to see a comparison graph. Rather than running at a higher RPM, it could just run with a slightly more constant RPM (a bit less connected to road speed).

During low speed urban driving (under 35 mph), the Volt is normally in serial hybrid mode so the wheels are driven only by the 149 HP electric motor which has 273 lb.-ft. of torque.

 

In a Volt, your entire trip to Concord could be covered on battery power if you drove 65 mph or less and used only the fan for climate control or ECO mode for moderate A/C.

If you could charge at work, your entire commute could be gas-free. Otherwise, you would be using gas on the return highway drive. Once you are off the freeway, you would typically have enough battery buffer to drive a mile or two before the gas engine restarts.

Optionally, you can use the Volt's "mountain mode" feature to regenerate up to about 15 miles of battery power from the gas engine. So, if you had more than 1-2 miles of city driving after exiting the freeway on the way home you could engage mountain mode for the last few minutes before exiting the freeway to "juice up" the battery in order to drive all-electric in town. Doing this is also more efficient since it avoids the start and stop of the engine and less efficient lower RPM serial power generation during slow speed driving. By charging the battery during freeway driving you can get 42+ mpg driving on city streets while enjoying the silence of up to 15 miles of electric urban driving.

In a great personal sacrifice for the sake of science, I'm driving all-gasoline this week in my Volt using the mountain mode strategy to cover my urban driving during a mixed driving pattern of highway, expressway, and city streets. I expect to drive around 200 miles and will report back next week with the results.

 

Very interesting videos. I watched #3 too. Very interesting how it behaves when EV range is low, like 1 mile.

One thing for sure - if plugging-in diligently, short trips will never bring the MPGs down like in regular Prius.

For Volt, there are 2 fuelly users and average is something like 125 MPG

 

I'm not sure what a "fuelly user" is, but here's my onstar November report if that helps:


Fuel Economy: 123 mpg

Electric Consumption: 36 kW-hr/100 miles

Electric Miles: 1,140

Gas Miles: 552

Total Miles: 1,691

Percentage on Electric: 67 %

Estimated Gallons of Fuel Saved:
52 gal

Estimated CO2 Avoided:
1,011 lbs

 

Which works out to 40 mpg in gas-only hybrid mode:

552 / (1691 / 123) = 40.15 mpg

 

As a hint, if you want to read the entire article w/o subscribing to WSJ, Google for the title above or Slow Sales Dogged Volt Before Fires and then click thru from the Google search results (you may have to refresh your browser).

 

Do you know how the numbers were derived?

 

PiP is more efficient than the Leaf in JC08 cycle. I estimate it'll get 32kWh/100mi. Volt is rated 36kWh/100mi. PiP will go further with the same amount of electricity.

PiP battery will last longer also because the ICE assists for peak power and high speed. There is no way it can drain in 4 mins. Volt's battery pack can (and has to) drain in 15 minutes because it was engineered not to blend with the gas engine.

PiP battery has ~6,000 cycle but Volt's battery has ~2,000 cycle before end of life (80% of the original).

On average, 2/3 of Volt miles will be on the battery pack and 1/3 on gas engine. PiP may be the reciprocal with 1/3 on battery and 2/3 on gas.

With more cycle, less miles on the battery and the ICE to protect it, I think PiP battery pack will have easier life than the Volt.

 

But would the Pip battery get more use in that you are likely to charge it more often - overnight and then whilst at work. For the average commute the Volt might be able to get there and back on the one charge. (assuming a commute of 20 miles - 10 each way).

 

Isn't there anouther thread on the phv versus the volt and leaf. I don't think a few percent of efficiency are going to make a difference, but I'll plow in.

Your number is wild speculation, based on a pretty bad test, and ignores toyota's own guidance. Toyota says the PiP will get 87 mpge in the epa test, this compares to the leaf's 99 mpge, and volts 94 mpge. The only way the prius phv goes further on electricity is if it uses gas or goes very slowly. The prius may win going 10 miles an hour. The leaf wins in the EPA city cycle, the volt on the highway cycle. I doubt these small differences will decide between cars. All those numbers are good.

This is truly bizarre reasoning. The volt operating within its performance envelope will die, because an unlikely scenario will get it to this scenario more often. The prius performance envelope is just much smaller, this does not mean it will last longer when pushed to its limit more often. I don't think either team of engineers were aggressive here.

Again wild speculation, that is not looking at any real data. The 2000-6000 cycle life is clearly pulled directly out of someone's nice person. A key metric is how these things age with years. Tesla, Nissan, GM, Toyota all have battery protection, only you claim that protection from an ice is better than other methods. Tesla, GM, and Ford all state that liquid cooling/heating will increase battery life. Nissan disagrees, but I bet the RAV4 EV has a liquid cooled battery pack.

+1

Or at least push it to its discharge and peak current limit more often.

 

Estimated Fuel Saved. Calculation: Theoretical Fuel Used* - Actual Fuel Used. *Theoretical Fuel Used is calculated based on US EPA identified average combined MPG for compacts with conventional gasoline engine for 2009. More information at Light-Duty Automotive Technology, Carbon Dioxide Emissions, and Fuel Economy Trends: 1975 Through 2010 | OTAQ | US EPA (select Appendix F4).

Estimated CO2 Avoided. Calculation: litres of Fuel Saved x 2.3 kg of CO2. Details can be found at www.epa.gov/oms/climate/420f05001.htm

 

Yea, see this one.

You are comparing apples and oranges. PiP 87 MPGe estimate is the blend of gas and electric (possibly city and highway). We don't know PiP EPA city figure. It should be much higher than 87 MPGe because the 49 gas MPG will drag the combined figure down.

Leaf's 99 MPGe and Volt's 94 MPGe are pure EV rating. You know Volt's gas+electric composite is 60 MPGe right?

JC08 is not 10 mph. Top speed is 50 mph. See the below graph.

Volt can draw 150 hp from the battery. PiP draws 50 hp and blends gas for anything more. Electricity from the plug recharges at the same rate. Aside from ~10% efficiency difference, the usage could make 300% difference. One design allows the extreme and the other optimizes for the average.

Yea, out of this and that.