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Driving without power steering.

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by elendilmir, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    This summer my power steering went out. I replaced the steering rack with a remanufactured rack, which failed. I got the replacement rack replaced by the remanufacturer and installed by a different shop. Same problem: SEVERE vibration when turning hard right followed by the PS error code, or just little twitchy motions when driving. I'm having the second shop take a look at it again this monday as I suspect that this is a data processing issue.

    In the meantime, I didn't want the thing to shake like a madman when turning. Plus, the uncertainty was making me crazy. Since I had driven with no real problems when the PS finally went out, I just pulled the relay to keep things predictable. It's not too bad. It'll make paralell parking a pain, but I can't think of the last time that I had to.

    My question is: If worst comes to worst, can I just drive it this way? And since the PS warning is now permanently on my dash, will it show an error when the traction battery gives out?
     
    #1 elendilmir, Dec 2, 2011
  2. w4y

    w4y Junior Member

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    #2 w4y, Dec 2, 2011
  3. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    #3 elendilmir, Dec 2, 2011
  4. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Back in the day we called that "Armstrong Power Steering". It was standard equipment on cars then, just like 440 air conditioning. Roll 4 windows down and go 40 mph.

    BS aside, please give us a report on your impressions of Armstrong Power Steering after you get used to it.
     
    #4 xs650, Dec 2, 2011
  5. w4y

    w4y Junior Member

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    You do know that Toyota has extended the warranty on the rack until 2013, unlimited miles. See if you can get a reimbursement for the remanufactured rack from Toyota NA.
     
    #5 w4y, Dec 3, 2011
  6. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    I went through all that. Toyota reimbursed me for the first remanufactured rack, and the remanufacturing company very kindly replaced the first one that went bad for free. This makes three racks that have gone wonky on me.

    I think that the problem is not the rack, but that it is a data processing problem in which the CPU thinks that the steering is going crazy, tells it crazy things to compensate, and then the PS system just gives up. It's going back to the last shop that worked on it to check deeper into it.

    In the meantime, I didn't like the constant threat of violent steering wheel jerking, so I pulled the PS relay. This killed the PS. It's taking a little while to get used to the warning light. However the steering may be a little stiff, but it is worlds better than the uncertainty. If worst comes to worst, I might just keep it this way. Every time I take it to the garage it costs me a few hundred bucks, and my plan is to keep this car long enough to buy my next car with cash.

    I'm primarily looking for information on the long term effects of driving without the PS. Effects on tires, linkages, that kind of thing. I also would like to know that if the traction battery goes out, will I get another error warning.
     
    #6 elendilmir, Dec 3, 2011
  7. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Long term effect of no PS? Erm, muscles like Popeye :rolleyes:

    Also, the steering on a car designed to have PS but with the PS not working will be much much heavier than in a car designed without PS (think old classic cars). Personally I wouldn't drive a car in the condition yours is in, other than in an emergency situation such as if the steering failed on a journey and I had to drive the car back home.
     
    #7 GrumpyCabbie, Dec 4, 2011
  8. Hal W

    Hal W New Member

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    Will not effect the tires or steering parts. If I went through all you have ,I would be doing the same thing! Hal
     
    #8 Hal W, Dec 4, 2011
  9. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    Thanks, Hal. Glad to know I'm not nuts. I'm going to have Hillmuth look at it tomorrow. but I have gotten sort of used to the lack of PS. I might just run it this way for a year or so.
     
    #9 elendilmir, Dec 4, 2011
  10. bobofky

    bobofky Member

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    Power steering quit on my 2001 in March 2011. We have traced it to the PS ECU not sending a signal to the motor. If I keep the tires inflated properly it drives about like the 1952 Studebake that I used to drive. If the car is moving it is not bad and I don't want to pay the price for a new ECU.
     
    #10 bobofky, Dec 8, 2011
  11. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    Preach on! My plan is still to drive my 02 until it dies, and rack up a huge pile of cash with which to buy my next car. Now that I know what the problem is, I can get on with it. I'll post up after 1000 miles or so. Maybe by then the new steering system will have given me the shoulders that nature neglected. If you live around Maryland, we should probably form a manual steering prius support group.
     
    #11 elendilmir, Dec 9, 2011
  12. c pillow

    c pillow New Member

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    My ps is also out on my 2002 prius. I'm having trouble finding schematics for the power steering relays- can anyone help?
     
    #12 c pillow, Jul 16, 2013
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You have options:
    • Rent access to Toyota's TIS service and download what you need.
    • Find a used manual on Ebay.
    • Order manuals from TIS, ~$300.
    • Take car to Toyota Service center and ask if it is covered under any extended warranty.
    If you take out the glove box, you can see the electronic steering controller. In theory, you could disconnect the cables and have a manual steering car but I have not conducted that test.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
    #13 bwilson4web, Jul 16, 2013
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Definitely do this. The fifteen bucks you'll spend could very well save you a bundle.

    The wiring diagram will show you all you'd need to know about the relays, but before you even go there and touch anything, let's get the diagnostic codes out of the computer. If that doesn't sound exciting, consider this: there's a warranty extension through December of this year that may or may not cover you, depending on the exact trouble codes you have, so the sooner we know the codes the sooner we know whether you have to face an expensive out-of-pocket repair or a Christmas-in-July steering upgrade to your 11 year old car. The diagnostic procedures start on page DI-408 of volume 1.

    There are two ways to get the codes: a code scanner is easiest, but only the most advanced Prius-aware scanners, comparable to those at the dealer, can see the steering codes. It might be easiest to have a Toyota dealer plug in and read those codes for you. If that's not convenient, you can scrounge up a light emitting diode and a resistor (for spare change at Radio Shack if you don't have those things around) and make a code blinker using the diagram on page DI-410. Follow the instructions and it will blink two-digit codes at you. For one idea how to do that, I permanently mounted my blinker on the meter cluster so checking codes is easy.

    The codes start on page DI-416. The first four indicate problems with the torque sensor, the frequent problem area covered by the warranty extension. If that's your issue, you're better off letting Toyota fix you up with a brand new unit than trying to do anything on your own. But if your codes are indicating a different problem, the warranty extension won't apply and it will be a matter of figuring out what repair options there are and what you want to spend.

    Yes, that is one option. :) Don't bother taking out the stop pins at the sides of the glove box (what the manual says to do), because if you do, the glove box flops upside down and dumps your stuff on the floor. Instead, leave those pins alone so the box can just drop straight down and hang from them when you pop the plastic hinge pins out the bottom. Unplug connector E6 (10-position, second from the top) from the steering ECU. Close the glove box and put the hinge pins back. Voila - no power steering, no annoying warning lights. After a month enjoy your new, ripped upper body.

    -Chap
     
    #14 ChapmanF, Jul 17, 2013
    yotatoter and bwilson4web like this.
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