Volt Sales Figures

To quote Toyota:

We believe there is no single solution to our future mobility challenges. What is the right vehicle for Tokyo right now might not be the best product for Kansas City today or Madrid next year. One thing is certain: Even in this difficult time for our industry, we must continue to look to the future. We are maintaining our pace for developing advanced technologies and exploring many technology options for future mobility.

 

I don't disagree with that. In my opinion, the following sequence is the most logical.

Reduce gas -> Blend electricity -> Blend more electricity -> Full EV displacement

The cost is lowest to highest. All of them will likely to co-exist.

 

So if PiP blends but charge it back to the original SOC with the gas engine later on, that's not blending? Just increasing the buffer window right?

 

My wife takes the mass transit to Manhattan. My work is in Long Island so I drive Prius in the HOV lane. LIRR does not work for me. I have carpooled with another person with the Prius eventhough I don't need to with the Clean Pass. After I was allowed to telecommute 3 days a week, carpooling was not plausable anymore.

I have a green mind. I am not a tree hugger. I live greenly but don't live just to be green.

 

If its bringing it back up to the original SOC, then for that period it is in charge sustaining mode. Blending or EV-first are control strategies for Charge depleting mode, and those terms don't apply in charge-sustaining mode.

When one changes the SOC set-point to have a larger buffer you decrease the charge depleting region for that trip and increase the buffer for charge sustaining mode.

 

I don't understand why the arguments about semantics and there is no reason to wait for a definition. EREV only made sense before GM had to come out and say, BTW, in some situations, the engine will actually help drive the wheels. So, it is a plug-in hybrid!

The Truth is Out: Chevy Volt's Wheels Sometimes Powered Partially by Combustion Engine [Updated] | PluginCars.com

 

Raising doubt to prevent conclusions from being draw is nothing new.

Volt owners know the promotion of their vehicle will become much harder when delivery of another plug-in hybrid begins.

Start the 10-week countdown.
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EREV always has been a type of PHEV (plug in hybrid). The substantive difference is between this and a bended phev. One burns no gas in EV mode. But the disadvantage is it is likely cost more than a blended phev given todays technology for similar performance. Given the tax credits though, an erev may actually be cheaper to the consumer.

Now there was in the epa definition the idea that once the engine or other generator came on it would not directly drive the wheels. The fisker karma sticks to serial phev. A blended phev can also be purely serial. GM turned on software to make the volt a parellel/serial hybrid like the prius in charge sustain mode. The benefit of serial is lower parts count simpler engineering, but by gm including the hardware there really was no downside to turning on the software. I doubt this change affected sales in anything but a positive way.

GM does go into a blended mode when it is very cold to supply heat. This may need to be declared and its an EREV down to what ever that temperature is then its a blended phev. EPA test does not go down to these tempertures so the volt has pure electric rating while cars like the prius phv and ford c-max energi will have blended mode ratings. CARB also uses the difference between blended and non-blended to give partial zev credits. So part of the definition is purely to satisfy politicians in carb states.

There is some driver control issues. The karma and the porsche 918 can go to sport mode, which give combined performance in a blended way at the expense of efficiency. The volt might be a better car with this option. The 918 like the blended prius phv can be shifted into charge sustain mode at any point or back into ev mode. EPA and CARB do not seem to care about these things, so an EREV can be shifted into a blended phev by driver selection if the manufacturer allows it. Similarly the european prius phv has a city electric mode that may allow the driver to make it a EREV, but toyota is not bringing this option to the united states.

I still do not think this effects gm sales. Anti phev fud and the high price along with what look like logistical problems have made gm miss there numbers. Toyota and nissan also missed there numbers on hv and bev cars. I hope gm will get whatever is going on with the nthsa and the batteries solved quickly, and people will drive plug ins and learn the fud is false, so that all the plug in sales can increase.

 

Not sure what your first comment means.. but I totally disagree with the second. :focus:

I believe having PiP's will be good for Volt Sales. The more mainstream the concept of Plug-ins becomes the less the resistance from John Q Public. The more people see EV-driving, even if its only for a short while, the better. And having a second major player will, hopefully, reduce some of the political attacks against the Volt/GM and plug-ins.


I expect the PiP will do well -- better than the Leaf. There are a lot of loyal Toyota owners and some will choose the PiP for their next car. Some (especially non-Prius owners) will drive a PiP, start thinking about PlugIns and try a Volt. I've not driven a PiP, but if it drives like a Prius, I think some will test it and decide, like I did, to go with a Volt. Yes the Volt costs a bit more, but not a huge amount compared to a PiP. And if one's commute is > 10m and < 40, the Volt will be tempting. There is some risk for Volt sales, as the Prius is the #1 traded car for a Volt, and some of those folks may stay Toyota if the PiP is good enough, but only time will tell.

 

#349: you write as if there is a future for the Volt. It is dead already, you just do not realize it.

 

What is your point in trying to insult me? Do you need to put others down to feel good about yourself? Are you so threatened by the Volt's potential that you have to make fact-less/logic-less insults?

Will the volt outsell the Prius? Maybe not. But let's look back
The first Prius came to North America, (after 3 years of sales in Japan). Modest Prius sales goals of 12,000 units were set. In 2000, they sold 5600.

As reported in this thread
Toyota Begins To Celebrate 10 Years of Prius | PriusChat

Predictions of the hybrid death were premature, made by people with no vision. Predictions of the Volt/EREV are likely just as premature. You may consider it as solving a problem you cannot see. Others see it solving a critical problem.


The Volt owners satisfaction rating of 93%, by Consmer Reports, is well above any Toyota, ever. (The Prius best was I think 84% or 85%). With highly satisfied customers, it seem unlikely to die soon. If part of its function is showing GM technical prowess and serving as a halo, they don't have to sell many to keep production going.

What is the logical basis for your assertion?

 

Pretty amazing for just 4.5 months of selling, eh?

Remember, Prius wasn't available until mid-August 2000.

That quantity especially impressive considering how cheap gas was back then and how many laughed at the concept of reducing emissions.
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Two-Mode.

Remember the circumstances with supply & sales?

What is different with Volt?
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As reference, from U.S. Total Gasoline Through Company Outlets Price by All Sellers (Dollars per Gallon), average gas prices in the US during those last months of 2000 were <$1.16/gal.

Found it via Motor Gasoline Sales Through Retail Outlets Prices.

edit: Above gas prices seems to be not a good source as it seems to exclude taxes. Proper gas prices are at http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMM_EPMR_PTE_NUS_DPG&f=W. Back then, gas prices were <$1.60 gallon.

 

Nope. Prius had the highest owner satisfaction of any car in CR for five years in a row.

From http://web.archive.org/web/20080605...ed/would-you-buy-that-car-again-406/overview/

And from an article that's gone but that I quoted at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-main-forum/60556-expensive-mantain-4.html#post831126.

http://www.ctv.consumerreports.org/owner-satisfaction.html still has a copy.

 

Thanks for correcting me. so at 93% is the same as this year's Volt rating. I was just repeating something I read. I guess I should verify stuff myself. In fact searching deeper I just found that the prius earned 94% in 2005.

 

Yes the Prius did well in its 4.5 months.

And the Volt has been on a slow rollout, available only in 7 states until the 3rd quarter and has only been on sale in all 50 states since November.

Not saying its better, just saying that modest sales and not hitting targets in the first year are not a sign of "already dead"

 

Two-mode was trying to solve a different problem, mild hybrid for bigger vehicles, plus it was a 4-way partnership which some of the partners pulling out. Two-mode SUV was not more efficient than a escape or highlander so had little market value. And pickup-truck drivers were/are not that interested in hybrids.


The Volt is not a mild hyhrid, its far more radical. When one can do months without a fillup and use mostly renewable energy, in a great riding car, it has a vastly different appeal. It has very staunch supporters, and is pulling buyers from many different segments. Something two-mode failed to do.

 

It is pretty impressive what some people are doing with Volt in using less gas. That guy's video on chevy.com, having used only 0.6 gal gas in 2,100 miles driving is quite impressive. He seemed very candid, not pulling a fast one or BSing.

I have no idea what it's really like to drive a Volt, but I'd have to take the word that it feels more like a solid 'driver's type' of car than a liftback Prius, which is secure, but it just doesn't have a driver's car type of feel.

That said, the Volt chassis is the kind of thing that PO's me. Yeah, I'm tall, but I expect to fit reasonably well in the back seat of a 4 door sedan......

I don't care how you slice it, or spin it or tell your story ... the current Volt's back seating positively ... sucks. Period.

So, you have an innovative, fairly expensive, possibly very fuel miserly when not driven too far away, two adult front, two child back seat car.

I think the Volt will limp along unfortunately. I wish they'd revamp the chassis, reintroduce in 4 years. But, I think it's going to get more ugly for the Volt next year, partly due to the PiP coming in 4 months.

 

For you, it does and likely others your height and above. Not all of us are that tall.

I sat in the back during someone else's Volt test drive and it was totally fine. I'm only 5' 8" and HWP.