GM Announces Enhancements to Chevrolet Volt

They rolled it over to simulate a side crash with rolling over, not to get the fire. This is a logical thing to do.
Your description of the events since June 2011 is not accurate. I am not going to correct you here and repeat what was already said as we are 'in the same boat'.

I would only quote one of NHTSA officials:
“Whenever you come out with an alternative vehicle, there will be problems with it,” Mr. Ditlow said. “But when you have a significant portion of the company’s success in the future based on a particular technology, you want to make sure you get it right, and they didn’t.
In they he meant GM and this is, in other words, my concern as expressed in post #8 above which is fully in the context.

 

Your quote is from Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, not from someone at NHTSA. He is a safety advocate trying to make a name for himself/organization and if he had not said something sufficiently edgy, he would not have been quoted. I have read/seen nothing suggesting he has any first hand knowledge of the incidents, test results or vehicle data.

My idea of context was what the test results mean and what are comparable risks. The volt got 5* for side impact, meaning < 6% risk of death or serious injury from that event. It got 5* for rollover as well. In comparison the Honda Civic's 2* means the risk of death or serious injury at 21-25%. IIHS totaled 3 cars as did, Euro Ncap (3 cars) and NHTSA totaled 3 other cars none of which exhibited problems. After the Fire NHTSA totaled 2 more cars with the side pole + roll over and could not duplicate the results. to "recreate" it they had to crash batteries without cars (which clearly is not the same thing). So the probability, even after the car is totaled in the new 2011 testing process (already used in EU), is pretty small. And risk is more to junk yards than people.

In context, when crashing cars with fuel tanks they only check for leaks for 5 mins, not weeks. Also in context is that 3.5% of all regular vehicle crashes involve fire at the crash. But less commonly addresses is the fact that, NHTSA's analysis of 1993-2001 National Automotive Sampling System (NASS) data indicated that each year an average of about 15,820 occupants were exposed to a post-crash fire in passenger cars and light vehicles (vans, pickup trucks, and multipurpose passenger vehicles) with a GVWR of 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds) or less that were towed away after the fire. Of those occupants, about 736 (6 percent) received moderate or severe burns (AIS 2 and greater). Three-quarters of those with moderate and more severe burns had second or third degree burns over more than 90 percent of the body. Moreover, the agency notes that maximum-severity (AIS 6) burns are nearly always fatal. (see Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards; Fuel Systems Integrity)

In CONTEXT NHTSA required Toyota to recall 17000 Lexus because of fire risk (leaking gas after crash testing). (e.g. see Toyota Recalls 17,000 Lexus HS 250h Hybrids Over Potential Fire Risks - The Consumerist). This was a good thing to ensure safety, but it got nowhere near the press of the Volt.

My point was that In the real CONTEXT of safety, the Volt's 5 star rating, which NHTSA reiterated was not in question, means the risk to life and limb was much lower in a Volt than in the majority of other cars. The fire danger from the Volt's issue was way smaller than multiple tested cars. In CONTEXT, the risk of a fire from the Battery was not even quantified

This issues, while important to be resolve, was blow way out of proportion with respect to the risk it actually involves.

 

Hymotion converted Prius to plugin and it didn't have fire problem after the rollover test.

 

Mostly correct. I don't think Hymotion was tested by NHTSA, but rather by a lab they paid to do a NHTSA-like test. Furthermore, as far as I know they only did the 2008 test not the recently introduced pole test (which is what cause the Volt's problem) that was introduced in 2011.
But overall the Prius is nearly as safe as the Volt (both 5 star, just the prius is only 4 star in rollover).

But no need to beat up anyone. I'm sure the Hymotion PHEV is safer than the average car (and probably the average hybrid).

 

They may not have been allowed to talked about it. The fix needs to be oked and the parts shipped out. Why waste people's (dealers, customers) time with inqueries until the fix is ready for them.

This is a new test, and since it happened in 1 of 8 officially tested Volts and also difficult to repeat, GM may not have seen any problem if they had done their own testing. The car is totaled in such crashes. Before this came to light, as long as the battery cells weren't breached, the case was doing its job.

Most coolants are a mix of water, a glycol, and various salts to inhibit corrosion and scaling. How many exist that won't crystallize when dried out? Keep in mind it still has to perform as well as the old fluid, while being compatible with the system materials and not being any more hazardous.

How vehicles have a level switch for coolant? All the ones I've owned just rely on a person eye balling the level in the overflow tank. The temperature gauge/overheating light will give you clue to check it. But relying on it is like relying on the oil warning light to monitor oil levels, by the time it comes on, a minor issue is now a serious problem.

 

There is a big difference between regular engine coolant and the separate circuit for cooling the (newly introduced and sensitive) traction battery.
I would expect GM to provide this kind of alert in the first place (which eventually they are doing).

 

the got the battery pack out of the car for this work so maybe they replace it with a new updated one?

 

I think the negative comments here are WAY out of line. If the vehicle is in a wreck, there was a danger of fire days or weeks later. I don't consider that even moderately dangerous, and I think this is childish GM-bashing.

If there's a wreck, you must observe a safety protocol within several hours. With any gas-engine car, you have to follow a protocol to avoid a gasoline fire or explosion.

 

Volt has 3 coolants. One for the gas engine, 2nd one for the battery and 3rd one for the inverter.

 

This all seems much ado about very little. The Volt has issues, but concern about a critical battery or coolant event after a crash really seems a stretch, even in light of the cars that sit around for a few weeks and then burn.

 

How'd GM manage to get out of re-doing NHTSA tests, after mod'ing the battery box? What criteria is there when mods are done. Would mods have to be 'more' ... and if so, how much? or ... have additional tests already been done with the mod?

Our species is not the shiniest apple in the barrel. One can't assume fires will only start this way or that. Remember? One Volt burned, then after the fire department put the fire out ... it spontaneously re-ignited not too long there after. You can't just say that since the earlier fires ONLY started one way, that this is all there can be. Crash tests are supposed to be comprehensive, so that they represent thinks that may remotely happen. How remote do you want your auto fires to be? 1 of 1,000 ? 1 of 100,000 ?

.

 

As long as it passes the 20 MPH side impact, everybody is happy right? Crashes above 20 MPH is not covered by the government test and the electronics inside the battery is still exposed to the coolant crystals. We'll just have to see what happens in the real-world crash >20 MPH and then rollover.

With the coolant level sensor installed, GM should know if they should send a team to deplete the battery power or not. I just hope it was designed to detect the coolant loss when the car is upside down or rightside up but leveled unevenly.

 

lol. They are trying to simulate a roll over hitting a tree or poll. How many survivors do you think there would be in a smart car going rolling at 100 mph The volt came out of the testing better than the prius. Do you want everything that doesn't get all 5s to fail! GM needed to drain the battery within a couple of weeks of the crash. I think you need to write some letters to a certain pennsylvania congressman. I'm sure the two of you can cook up some tests that only the volt will fail, but it will cost money.

 

In one of the test, the battery started to smoke after hours. That's before coolant can crystalize. All I am saying is that the fix is just enough to pass the test. It does not solve the underlying problem.

 

In that test, they did not crash a car, they just took the battery pack out of the car and just crashed the battery pack into the pole. They did that 3 times, 1 fire, 1 spark 1 nothing.

Without the steel tunnel that protects the battery, its not surprising they could get it to crack, spark. Bet if we took the battery out of a prius and crashed it into a pole we could get it to spark.

 

That is all anything is engineered to satisfy.. Government creates a regulation with bare minimums, and companies do the bare minimum to pass the hurdle. Or they just pay a fine if that is the case. In the end I am not concerned about it. I know how it happened now, I know what is going to be done to strengthen the area, and I know now if I ever am in a side impact crash and stranded in the car for weeks on end that if the bar underneath my seat is deformed that it could have possibly punctured the battery. DrInnovation is correct that the battery was removed from the car and punctured... I will say however that if you take a NiMh battery and slam it in to anything not much will happen. You will "release" the energy inside, but as long as there are no ignition sources around it will not catch on fire like Lithium. I only know that cause I have a lot of NiMh batteries, and Li-Poly batteries for my RC cars/trucks/heli.. Man do the Li-Poly soft packs make impressive fire balls. NiMh packs just deform, and then I probably dispose of them. To each their own though. With the NiMh my Traxxas Slash can do 45, and with the Li-Poly+lower gear I can almost hit 100mph. I will continue using the Li-Poly's with caution. Far more fun. Maybe my Traxxas Slash should get a massive recall cause when I hit a pole with it & it rolls over the battery bursts in to flames. Maybe that is why I am so desensitised to the Volts issue since I've dealt with it a couple time before and had to completely rebuild my little truck after it has completely burned up.

 

i wonder if they are looking at any other enhancements. talking with fellow Oly Leafer and Oly "volter?" the Oly Volt is in shop right now as we speak due to two UIA incidents that happened yesterday.

all this is VERY preliminary info as i was just informed of this literally less than an hour ago. keep in mind, up till now, this lady was an over the top fanboi of her Volt, but today is is deathly afraid to drive after yesterdays two incidents.

probably wont have any real word until after the holidays i am guessing but will report any info as it comes in.

 

I realize we have wait to find out what the mechanic says after looking at the car but we don't need to wait to get details of these two reported unintended acceleration incidents from her, right? All we know right now is 2 UIA yesterday and now "deathly afraid to drive". Details please!

 

details are limited. all i know is she had just gone thru automated car wash on Plum Street in Downtown Olympia. went to pull out after the system released her (it pulls your car thru so you need to have car on and in neutral)

went to pull out and shot out and nearly into the street. she shut it down , regained composure and after that... no details. states that she went back to office. then left and it "surged" again and now its sitting at the dealer.

did not get any details on the 2nd event. so can only wait and see.