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All-EV mode

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Misty fog, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. Misty fog

    Misty fog Junior Member

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    I spend a lot of time in bumper-to-bumper traffic conditions, therefore like it or not, effectively the car will be running on EV-mode most of the time. And once the battery drains off, it will be recharged by the engine.

    Question: Under such conditions, i.e. frequent recharging of the gasoline engine, is the Prius less efficient than a normal gasoline car? I would imagine that draining-recharging cycle should be less efficient than moving the car directly using the engine?
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    My Prius offers regenerative braking, suffers less pumping loss, and never idles, while in the drive thru, which is as close to bumper to bumper traffic as I ever see.
     
  3. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Normal gasoline cars run the engine at all times. Even when the car isn't moving. Incredibly wasteful. :madgrin:
     
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  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I honestly can't imagine a situation where a full hybrid would ever be less efficient than it's equivalent size/weight conventional gas counterpart. While it is less efficent to charge the battery than to directly drive the wheels given the exact same amount of gasoline used, the inherent efficiency of using essentially zero energy while sitting in traffic or when coasting compared to a conventional vehicle that must run continuously no matter if the energy is needed or not still leaves the hybrid as a far more efficient vehicle overall.
     
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  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I agree with efusco. The fact that the engine will turn off when coasting or sitting still and that even when the engine (Atkinson Cycle engine) is running it is still more efficient than a standard Otto cycle engine or even diesels. This is a big reason why city mpg numbers are astronomically higher than any non-hybrid.

    Compare the Golf TDI and the Prius c. Somewhat similar sized cars with somewhat similar acceleration is the Golf is equipped with DSG (Golf is quicker though).

    Golf TDI MPG: 30City / 42 Highway
    Prius c MPG: 53City / 46 Highway
     
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  6. Southern Dad

    Southern Dad Active Member

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    I use the full EV mode for dropping my daughter off at the "Kiss and Go" lane at school. It is great for that. It takes about 5 minutes to work my way through the very long lanes at the school and it is a very slow speed. If I am not in EV mode the ICE sometimes cranks up for the heater or other reasons.
     
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  7. Misty fog

    Misty fog Junior Member

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    The traffic is often backed up for more than 2-3 kilometers. When it moves it leaves only a small gap of maybe 5-8 meters long. To drive that small distance and stop again, the battery drains pretty fast, and I do not get any regenerative braking at such low speeds.

    One option is to wait for a bigger gap to open up, and then try to do a mini Pulse & Glide in order to let the engine drive the wheels directly and minimize battery use. But this is very difficult to pull off successfully and not to mention, it tends to annoy the other cars behind you and runs the risk of another car filling up the gap. Even if I managed to execute it, I noticed that it still uses a lot of battery power.

    Therefore I have concluded that the best strategy is to just creep along on EV-mode like normal and let the engine regenerate the battery power. But it just leads me to the thought: is the gasoline engine much more efficient under such conditions?

    Ignore for the moment the benefits of the Prius's engine not running while idling - this advantage may not be much if the traffic moves frequently with minimal idling time, yet the distance that opens up each time is very small.
     
  8. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    An Otto cycle (or Atkinson cycle for that matter) engine is very inefficient near idle, the throttle plate is almost completely closed and the pistons are trying to draw in air past a closed plate. (Diesel engines just inject less fuel, they do not restrict air flow) Your Prius, on the other hand, is 'idling' using the battery then recharging at well above idle speed when needed, with the throttle plate in a much less restrictive position.

    Engine efficiency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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  9. Misty fog

    Misty fog Junior Member

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    That makes a lot of sense, thanks!

    I was worried because my FC gauge was persistently above the maximum bar at 10L/100km during bumper-to-bumper traffic. I've also heard of people getting above average MPGs in city driving which sounds counter-intuitive to me, since the stop and go nature of city driving should be sub-optimal for fuel economy.

    Does anyone have any idea (through experience, testing etc) what would be the impact on MPG by driving in all-EV mode at low speeds, with constant engine regen? I know this approach is not to be recommended, but is that actually highly detrimental to fuel economy? From my experience creeping through heavy traffic, the MPG at most would be 23.5 (converted from maximum bar 10L/100km shown on my screen - I do not know the actual figure since I did not reset my trip).
     
  10. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I will often drive in 'Eco' mode when in town/city traffic. This reduces the output of the a/c and makes the accelerator response a little more subdued. You still get the same power if you floor the car.

    On the open road/highway I will use 'normal' mode and will select 'power' mode when overtaking or when I require a little fun.

    But creeping in heavy traffic is still better in a Prius than a normal car. Sure there is increased load on the engine when it's charging the HV battery but a normal car will often be powering the a/c in such a situation. Also, once the HV battery is charged the Prius will switch off the engine, whereas a traditional car doesn't.

    Over the couple years I've had a Prius I think I will have saved about £5,000/£6,000 ($7,600/$9,100) in fuel savings! :cool:
     
  11. Misty fog

    Misty fog Junior Member

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    I have decided to try test out driving solely on the electric motor with constant regen (does this harm the engine/motor btw?) when the SOC drops too low.

    Method 1:
    With warm start, my round-trip journey based on all-electric mode yielded around 65-70mpg. Basically I tried to maintain the bar at around 50-75% of the EV region on the left whenever possible (i.e. level road or slight incline). The average speed is around 23kmph and the driving is almost continuous.

    Method 2:
    On the same route, I also tried a Pulse & Glide approach which gave me similar MPG but leaves me with higher SOC compared to the all-electric mode. Not surprisingly, the P&G method is better than all-electric.

    But what really surprises me is the very good result that I have gotten with all-electric + constant regen, which is still highly efficient. But this may have to do with the fact that half my journey is a downward slope where I simply just glide/coast down. But since this is a round-trip experiment, I have to make up for it again with all-electric mode on the upward incline.

    This experiment is also not consistent with the very poor results that I have gotten on bumper-to-bumper traffic. Perhaps this may have something to do with the constant accelerating from start, and the constant braking without regen?
     
  12. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Don't analyse things so much.

    The best way is not to use the EV button at all and just drive the car gently and let it work out when to use the petrol engine or not.

    Remember that if you force the car to use more electric then you will get great short term fuel economy BUT the charge in the battery has to be put back in and this is usually by burning petrol reducing economy.

    Just drive as smoothly as road conditions allow and avoid looking at the gauges and check the fuel economy results with your previous attempts. You will find it's probably better over a longer run.

    Check your tyre/tire pressures often though.