Toyota Prius c: 53 MPG city / 46 MPG Hwy; Under $19,000

I notice that you facts have nothing to do with what we know about the two engine choices, or my questions in comparison. I gave you ward auto world's take, and on other threads posted links to the bsfc.

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Yes, older and less efficient. Car and Driver called it a "turd of an engine". It is lighter, smaller, and cheaper. I do not know if toyota plans to rev this engine soon and get a boost in mpg and performance.

 

Google for a fuel economy calculator. You need some help since arithmetic is clearly not your strong suit.

Are you really an engineer ?

 

It was a memorable quote. I'm sure in prius c form, it will be much more refined. But if toyota makes the engine better for the other cars, it will improve in the prius c as well.

vw and fiat making 1.4 turbo engines too. There were rumors of a Toyota turbo hybrid, but I think it was pure speculation.

 

Austingreen did the calculations correct, or at least got the right answer.

Using mpg for average calculations will give the wrong result. You need to use a volume per distance value, like gallons per 100 miles. An article explaining was once posted here explaining why, but it's beyond my ability to write out a simple explanation. You are free to look up harmonic mean and why it's used for averaging rates, though.
Found the EPa's formula: FEcomb = 1 / (( .55 / city FE) + (.45 / hwy FE))
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/420f04053.htm

As to the common sense that smaller engines get better city economy, that's only true as long as the engine isn't too small. If so, then the higher demands of driving are going to have it in a less efficient range on the power curve. While 1.5L is average in size for the segment, it has been Atkinsonized. Its power output has been reduced for efficiency. It might be fine, but the 1.8L might be in its 'sweet spot' more often if it were in the c.

 

Those are magic words. Even if people are drawn into the dealer just to check out the plug-in Prius, it still won't be a "halo" vehicle if they end up buying a Prius c instead.

That's the fundamental shortcoming with GM's product line. People coming in to see Volt end up buying the a Cruze instead. There's a huge difference between the 50 MPG from Prius c and 30 MPG from Cruze.

It's this big picture finally emerging that will cause the paradigm shift, as if hybrids never had any naysayers and it was only just a matter of not having enough available. The sudden change of attitude is rather frustrating for those of us who fought the resistance. But that's the way progress takes place sometimes.
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Don't you love how counterintuitive some things are when it comes to hybrids? Of course, things like that are what have contributed to a number of misconceptions over the years.

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I stand corrected. I didn't realize EPA calculates the weighted average of city and highway gpm, and then flips the ratio for MPG.

I have been calculating (cityMPG*55 + hwyMPG*45)/100, but this is actually off by a small amount from the exact answer.

 

Funny you should mention Yaris 1.0. Being the family car for the past 11 years, I might have spend more city driving with that engine than my own car, and the fuel economy is downright frightening.
Getting up to speed (50 to 60km/h) isn't a problem when the car weights less than a ton (850kg. for the original Yaris) and the gearing allows it to drone about in 5th. gear already at 45km/h! Not only is it extremely efficient, but it also warms up about 3 times as fast as my Diesel, and nearly as fast as my Gen III.
Having driven both the 1.3 Yaris and diesel, I can attest to the 1.0 being the city champion of the lineup. The hybrid is going to be a hard sell on city FE alone.

 

lol... you know this engine has been 70% reworked for Prius c, and you still continue to write such nonsense.

 

absolutely... and same goes for later Yaris which had gained in weight.

My personal city routes show Yaris 1.0l doing 6.5l, Yaris 1.3 doing 8.5l and Auris 1.6l doing 10-12l.

But at the same time, Prius G2 that I owned for 3 year shined in that city, doing less than 6l at worst case scenarios and averaging less than 5l, sometimes even less than 4l...

Larger engines will spend significantly more fuel in start/stop driving. They always do, fact that is proven by all those EU cycle tests. They might cruise better at larger speeds, but thats not relavant to the city.

My own GS350 AWD, with 306hp would spend only 10l/100km at 100mph... probably similar level as Prius and same level as my Rav4 diesel... BUT, in the city, Prius does 5l and GS350 AWD does 20l. Not only that, any kind of driving that involves anything but cruising (for instance slowing down and speeding up after speedbumps) would double the consumption.

So yes, large engines cruise very well, but overall they consume more in the city, considerably more.

 

My routes are a bit more generous with few actual stops. I get 5l in my iQ diesel when driving in the city, and that is when using every hyper miling trip in the book. (The Yaris 1.0 gets 5l as well)

But now we have bad news. I just read news about the Yaris hybrid and Toyota is now claiming "up to 30km/l" on the Euro cycle, which is less that what you get when doing the direct Japanese to Euro cycle conversion. We should know more when we get closer to Geneva, but I was really hoping for 30km/l+

 

They clearly said in the context of highest MPG in the city.

Expected class-leading fuel economy better than 50 mpg in the city, which is the highest city mpg of any non-plug-in vehicle.​

Source

 

Nice link Seawolf. It also says (my bolding)

I take that to mean the $19k price tag includes BT, but does not include SKS.

 

I think Prius c is a big threat to Volt sale as a commuter car. $19k vs. $40k is a huge plugin premium. Remember when Toyota said Lithium battery isn't ready for prime time?

 

It's not a threat to the Volt at all. Assuming c FE of 50mpg. and fuel prices of $5/gal. makes the Volt recoup the premium after only 210k miles*
Besides. You already paid for some of the Volt, so you should just go ahead and buy the rest of it as well ;-)

*(assuming free electricity, that the Volt ICE gets 230k mpg and the equally likely event of similar maintenance costs).

 

so far what i read was "less than 80g/100km" in UK PR, which is considerably better than 89g/100km for Prius. Also, are you in NL? Then it will be quite cheap too.

 

I dont think Prius c has anything to do with Volt... Tesla, Ford Energi models, Prius PHEV are pretty comparable.

Prius c is mass produced hybrid that will sell in hundreds of thousands of units, per year.

 

My guess is the 'c' will be a niche car in the US, but may well sell extremely well in Japan and Europe. Merkins like bigger cars, and because most cannot perform arithmetic they tend to discount city MPG because they assume most of their fuel use is highway.

 

Personally, I did not consider the regular prius to have the fit/finish/feel I wanted. Lexus maybe but not a Prius. But the Lexus hybrids were poor fuel economy. The Volt is way better fuel economy (I'm at 86MPGe for past 90 days) and great ride.

I've not seen a C yet, so cannot really say but I don't think people looking in the 30-40K range are looking for an econobox. For them its not just about the money, its about the value. I do expect the C will impact Cruze and other low-end ICE cars for city dwellers. The cruze 42mpg is highway only.. so it will depends on the persons diving balance.

Remember the average US new vehicle price is over 30K.. so there are lots of buyers above and below that point. The Prius C will likely get people looking on the bottom, the Volt on the top. I hope to see the Volt continue to take sales from BMW, Audi, Infinity gasers not Prii.

 

If MPGe was not a political crock, that might sound pretty good.
I have a Lexus hybrid (CTh) that is used for long distance highway and 25 mile extra-urban trips. Lifetime MPG is 50.2 since I took delivery in December, although two trips into the city yesterday in warmer weather in the 40s F yielded 61 MPG for the day's round trips.