PIP - Leaf - Or Volt ??? - Help Me Decide

At least we have more choices coming all the time. Sort of a historic time where the automobile is fundamentally changing.

 

Hi. I'm bumping this thread back up because my own decision point appears to be approaching - perhaps within a week. My LEAF order is expected to arrive this month. My PiP order is - well, you know - April +/- 1 month.

My biggest source of decision anxiety is the actual real-life performance of the PiP. What is the real EV range at ~35mph? what about 60mph? How much does the heater influence operation? Fit and general utility I can answer with a test drive of a normal prius - these items, not so much.

regarding leasing the LEAF - i've asked the dealer and gotten some basics back - it pretty much matches what others have seen. I don't have details on NH leases and buying them out etc. In reality, if I think i need to lease to protect against uncertainty then I probably should go with the PiP, as (hopefully) worst case I've got a slightly more expensive Prius...

My wife seems to favor the Prius - but it may be because she figures she'd get it. She does many short trips each day - but also does at least one longer (longer than ~70 miles) each week. I guess that would stick me with the 07 Prius....

Any way - NYPrius1 - got any test drive reports on the three options for us?

 

I can tell you this much from the Volt.. @35mph you get EXCELLENT range above the EPA estimate. Easily over 50miles if you know what you are doing (and being a Prius driver you do already!).. @60mph it gets closer to the EPA's 35 miles. My last stint on the battery on highway from 100%-0% charge was 37.6 miles @65-70mph.. What to take from this is that the PiP should get better than 15 miles @ 35mph, and at least the EPA estimated 15 @60mph. Of note I personally would use your gas engine for acceleration, and put it in EV when I was up to speed (like what we do now), and that will give you your best electric bang for your dollar. Then you can recoup some of the energy while stopping. Personally I like the Volt best, and I leased one. So far it has been very positive. Everyone is going to have different requirements though, and in the end you have to justify the cost. If you have a round trip of more than 70 miles without recharging I would go with a PiP or a Leaf. Cause once you run the Volts battery dry you are looking at real world 37-42mpg. We take our Gen3 Prius if we go on long journeys, or any kind of trips if that tells you anything. Cause at I think it is around 76 miles or so our Gen3 begins costing less to drive per mile than the Volt. Not to mention it counts against my Voltstats.

Some thoughts.. I have sat in/drove a Leaf. I do like the seats better than the Volts and Prii. They were more comfy. My only complaint was I did not like the way the center console was set up. Other than that the Leaf was comparable performance wise to the Volt. I do not really understand the layout of the dash however other than what I was briefly told. Obviously at 100% charge you have 0 regen braking. So most charge theirs to 80% (reducing range). I think all are good cars. You just need to go drive them for yourself to see.

 

I've drive the LEAF a couple times. I've not really driven a 2010+ prius (other than a stripped rental 2 years ago) so I may want a little seat time to make the case for the PiP.

As for the Volt, it was nice to drive, but getting in and out was a major (and I mean deal-breakingly major) pain. the d*&# pillar was in the way with the seat to where I needed it. That, coupled with the back seat (lack of) room (plus the expected price differential) was enough to put the Volt out of contention for me.

 

Re: PIP - eaf - Or Volt ??? - Help Me Decide

With minimal use of climate controls (fan only or mild A/C) I get low 40's at 60F for battery range going 60-65 mph in my Volt although the EPA range estimate is 35. At similar highway speeds I get 42 mpg running on gas in hybrid mode.

The PiP may not get an EPA battery range estimate since it uses a blended design but I would guess an equivalent EPA range of 10-11 and 13-14 miles at 60-65 mph. The production PiP has a different battery than the prototype and few, if any, people have yet been able to drive it enough to get a measurement of it's battery range and write about it. Toyota estimated the PiP has a battery range of 14 miles on the same European test cycle that gave the Volt an estimate of 52 miles.

 

With apologies for not having read the whole thread, so I don't know if you are still considering, or have already chosen...

I think the Leaf is the clear choice:

Almost all your trips are well within its range, and you clearly prefer to drive electric. The Leaf would mean no gas-engine maintenance, which you've said you are concerned about.

Your only negative on the Leaf is if your "other half" needs to take a long trip the same day you take your dog to the show. But how often does that happen? If it's less than once or twice a year, one of you could rent a car. And it really seems unlikely that you'd ever both need the Prius on the same day.

As for re-sale value, there is some risk with the Leaf just because it's so new. A radical breakthrough in technology could cut its value, but that does not seem terribly likely. A better EV from another company could also cut its resale value, but the Leaf is an awfully nice car. And, as you mentioned, leasing takes that problem off your shoulders, though leasing is more expensive in the long run.

So I think the Leaf is the obvious choice, and the only real decision is whether to buy or lease. And the very fact that they are willing to lease the car to you is a statement of their confidence in its reale value.

I hate Nissan for the way they treated me when I wanted to buy the car. Nissan has lost me forever as a customer. But I really liked my test drive in the Leaf.

But whatever you do, DO NOT buy the ESVE rom Aerovironment. They are crooks of the lowest order and Nissan lost a lot of my respect by partnering with them. Go instead to the Leaf forum or the Leaf chat board and research other brands of EVSE.

 

Given what you described, I think the concerns about the PIP make the Leaf a better choice. (I'm a Volt owner.. but your choice seems to be Leaf or Pip; you already own a Prius and for your described trips and occasional long hauls your family really doesn't need the flexibility of the Volt.. )

The Leaf will move you off of gas much better, and I'd expect it to be way more fun than a PiP.

You described your wife's commute but not yours, but you want to have the longer of the two commuters using EV, not choosing the Pip so the shorter of them can use it... And this way you get the new car, not the 07 :rockon:

 

My commute is 7 miles each way and usually is on roads with a 40mph or less limit. Occasionally I'll tack on another up to 15 miles. A few years back I figured I could do almost everything on a 40 mile EV. I almost got a vectrix scooter, but I don't have a motorcycle license....

 

....assume you guys checked state rebates.
I did not see anything for NY or NH on the Wiki page.

 

Nothing for NH. Oh well.

 

If it is just going to be for commuting without the need to haul lots of stuff, why not consider the iMiEV?

 

Well, there is a LEAF sitting on a lot right now with my name on it. I have a PiP on order.

I suppose I could orphan the LEAF now, test drive the i next month (I'm waiting for a call back from the local dealer) and test drive a PiP and then make a decision...

but then I'd miss a month or more of EV driving.

anyone have a link to a GOOD comparison of the LEAF and (US spec) i?

 

For What it's worth here is link to my test drives

Leaf Nissan_Leaf
I Testdrive_Mitsu_I
Coda Sedan Testdrive_Coda
Volt Chevy_Volt
PIP (test not 2012) Testdrive_Prius_PHEV

Personally I prefered the I but a straight EV won't work for me so I ordered the PIP, The coda was suprisingly good too but delivery is not currently scheduled to begin until Feb and only in California.

 

i bought a nissan in the past, i couldn't get it to go over 50 mph. brought it back to the dealer, he took it for a test drive, came back, got out of the car and said he got to 80 mph. i felt kind of stupid, and left. when i got to the interstate it wouldn't go over 50. two years later i went to trade it in, and they wouldn't give me half of what i bought it for. he said "nissan doesn't hold their value". that was the end of them. w/leaf being a new gen auto i would be very careful with my money.

 

give me a break!!

 

Did you pick a car yet?

If not my opinion is get a Volt. Because it looks better.

The Leaf is Ugly.

 

If the looks and ergonomics don't matter as much. I think this was a very helpful flow chart.

 

OK, dumb Volt question. I got a negative impression when I test drove one last fall, but maybe I'm missing something.

When I test drive, I take turns faster than I normally would. Every corner I gunned into, the steering went from understeer to oversteer about a third of the way through. Living on a curvy road, this is a dealbreaker for me.

Also the impression I got of the Volt's interior was less solid and more plasticy than a Prius. I didn't spend a lot of time in it though.

So - was I missing something? Should I go back for another look?