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Apparent Dead Battery - To Jump or Not to Jump

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by BentSpace, Jan 20, 2012.

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  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    ^^ I'd ask the dealer what they prefer. Did your car come with a couple years of free Roadside Assistance? (I bought mine too early to get that.)

    Another choice, if it will jump start from another vehicle, may be to drive it in. Just don't turn off the ignition, because it will need yet another jump to restart. The ICE periodically turning itself off is not an issue, as long as the ignition is kept in Ready mode. But again, ask the dealer first.
     
    #21 fuzzy1, Jan 21, 2012
  2. BentSpace

    BentSpace Member

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    #22 BentSpace, Jan 21, 2012
  3. BentSpace

    BentSpace Member

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    Does also mention: NOTICE
    The Prius auxiliary battery is a special Valve Regulated Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) design and
    should NEVER be replaced with a conventional battery design.

    Maybe I shouldn't mention that I tried to charge it, they might say I damaged it by doing that?
     
    #23 BentSpace, Jan 21, 2012
  4. Gurple42

    Gurple42 New Member

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    It's too late now, but you should have called your free Toyota Roadside assistance, but then again I always take the easy way out.
     
    #24 Gurple42, Jan 21, 2012
  5. BentSpace

    BentSpace Member

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    Yes, did come with 2 years roadside, but I little hesitant to have it towed. Do they usually do a good job towing or are there a lot of stories of them damaging cars when towing?

    Is there any way to shift to neutral when the battery is dead?
     
    #25 BentSpace, Jan 21, 2012
  6. BentSpace

    BentSpace Member

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    Well I could put it back in there and not mention that I tried to charge it. Though being that it was at 3 volts I'm pretty sure it must have been damaged already. I did call the roadside assistant first and they said they could jump it or tow it, but was a little wary of both those options, cause when I called the service department they said if i bring it in and they find that it was just low from being drained by a light left on, they would charge me $51 to charge it, so they recommended I charge it first to see if it starts the car. They didn't mention that it could be damaged by charging it with a normal charger.
     
    #26 BentSpace, Jan 21, 2012
  7. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    Thanks, Fuzzy1. I think I'll return that Stanley product and just go with a 2A trickle charger (Stanley also offers one), or a 4A might be ideal.

    The 8A feature is manual, but it uses 6A otherwise and adjusts downward as the battery charges. I'd feel safer with one that maxes out at 4A. Thanks to you and Bent for confirming the 4.2 amp limitation on the battery itself.
     
    #27 vinnie97, Jan 21, 2012
  8. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    Fuzzy1, I see a lot of automatic chargers under $100 but little at the 4/2 amp level. Would this one from Sams Club do the trick? 4/2 Amp Battery Charger - Sam's Club

    EDIT: Nevermind, just a 2-amp trickle charger for 12-volt batteries (it increases to 4-amp for 6-volt batteries).
     
    #28 vinnie97, Jan 21, 2012
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Did you stick with low charging current as listed in the manual, and not let the voltage rise above normal operating voltage? My other car normally runs 13.8-14V. My Prius is running 14.7V these days, which seems high. Someone else indicated that it runs higher in cold weather, but I wasn't tracking this before winter.

    The TSB to not use standard chargers may be related to why others have suggested letting the car's inverter do the bulk of the battery charging, in Ready mode, after the car is jump started. But you need to get it started first.

    No clue on towing quality.

    Neutral is not available unless the car is in Ready. When powered down, it can only be in Park except is special emergencies such as powering down at highway speed.
     
    #29 fuzzy1, Jan 21, 2012
  10. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    It looks like 4-amp charging is only available manually on chargers well over $100 and are more feature-packed than I require. I can't believe someone hasn't furnished a product specifically intended for charging the Prius battery.
     
    #30 vinnie97, Jan 21, 2012
  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    This is still very very cheap compared to the cost of fixing do-it-yourself errors. Don't be afraid to exercise this option.
     
    #31 fuzzy1, Jan 21, 2012
  12. BentSpace

    BentSpace Member

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    Yes, tried charging it at both 2 amps and 4 amps setting on my charger. It's a $30 smart charger from Walmart, but unlike the more expensive ones didn't have a switch to choose the type of battery (i.e. Wet Cell, AGM, Gel). I measured the voltage while it was charging a few times and didn't seem to go over 10 volts.

    Maybe they are saying that cause an AGM battery needs a special charger???
     
    #32 BentSpace, Jan 21, 2012
  13. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Ditto that. At this point $51 is a bargain. If it doesn't take a charge, pay the $200 to have them install a new Toyota battery.
     
    #33 richard schumacher, Jan 21, 2012
  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    10V is nowhere near the level where a switch or intelligence for battery type matters. This low, all of them are equally dead.

    Does your charger have an ammeter display to show how much current was actually going in? I'm looking for the possibility that it reduced the current until the voltage rose to some predetermined level, in which case there is a possibility that you didn't have it on the charger long enough. If a built-in ammeter shows it was actually taking anything close to 2 and 4 amps, it seems very unlikely that this battery was salvageable in the first place.
     
    #34 fuzzy1, Jan 21, 2012
  15. BentSpace

    BentSpace Member

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    No
    Just has a green light that lights up when it's fully charged, but in this case it's not full.

    What's the deal here, I though AGM batteries were top of the line, how could it be dead after a month and half?
     
    #35 BentSpace, Jan 21, 2012
  16. BentSpace

    BentSpace Member

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    I know there's a lot of stories here of people who claim to do their jump start correctly and end up damaging something, but are there any stories of the roadside assistance people damaging stuff doing a jump start?

    I have confidence in myself to follow the manual to a fanatical T, but I some how don't see a hurried tow truck driver whipping out the manual to make sure they're doing it right. Though I suppose if I let them do it and they mess it up at least they won't void my warranty for trying to do it myself. Would they make you pay for it if you try to jump it and end up frying the inverter?
     
    #36 BentSpace, Jan 22, 2012
  17. BentSpace

    BentSpace Member

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    I asked my dealer about it and he said if you leave it sitting for 3-4 days the battery can die. What!? Is he serious? Didn't read that one in the manual. What kind of car dies after 3 to 4 days of non-use. This doesn't seem like an improvement.
     
    #37 BentSpace, Jan 22, 2012
  18. kornkob

    kornkob New Member

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    Odds are the roadside assistance would be farmed out to a subcontractor so results could vary. However, if you're getting Toyota's Roadside assistance and they manage to do damage to the car int he process, then they'd be liable for the repair.

    As such there's less financial risk calling for your free roadside assistance than jump starting the car yourself (and thereby accepting the risk that you might do it wrong).
     
    #38 kornkob, Jan 22, 2012
  19. BentSpace

    BentSpace Member

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    Apparently once AGM batteries go completely dead most chargers have a hard time bringing them back up. Here I found a way to trick your charger into charging them: How To Charge an AGM Battery - Hot Rod Magazine
    Not sure I want to try it, but may be helpful for those out of warranty.
     
    #39 BentSpace, Jan 22, 2012
  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Traditional flooded batteries are no longer considered safe inside the passenger compartment. The Prius 12V is effectively inside, so it needs something that doesn't leak acid, and doesn't put acid fumes or aerosols into people's breathing space.
    Yup, that happens too. But see Kornkob's reply.
    Yup, usually.
    Your dealer is blowing smoke on this one. The Prius can have problems -- PriusChat has lots of threads about 12V batteries, vacations, and airport parking -- but 4 days is absurdly short unless the battery starts seriously undercharged or near death.
     
    #40 fuzzy1, Jan 22, 2012
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