Does GM REALLY want to phase out the Volt?

Well said.

A tesla is maybe the only car I'd trade for my Volt, as I need the 200+ range.

 

I certainly agree that GM marketing is inept.

I also agree that GM historically made a poor decision in ignoring single mode hybrid technology for small and midsize cars. They mostly ignored smaller cars in general and focused on SUVs and trucks. I do give them credit for advancing hybrids in that space as well as busses with the 2 mode design. It will interesting to see what the Cruze plugin will get for mpg and mpge based on the FWD 2 mode transmission.

 

So what happens next?

The point of pushing was to get some type of advancement. We wanted progress, not reviews repeating the "nice, but too expensive" observations. Waiting for the next monthly sales report hoping for the best doesn't accomplish anything.

Now it turns out that the plug-in model of Prius delivers the same combined MPG as the regular model and the MPGe rating is actually 1 higher than Volt. How long can it continue without any sort of change?
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I'd say at least another year or two.... For $2,500 more than the price of a base model PiP (after tax credits) a consumer in the U.S. can buy a Volt and get a non-blended EREV with an extra 11.6 kWh of battery pack. That's a good deal if you have a daily commute longer than the PiP's 12-15 mile range or if you just want something a bit new and different after owning a Prius for a long time.

 

Not sure who you are aiming this at. Unlike gm-volt.com I doubt there are many GM folks here (and even there they don't leak info).
Outside of GM, the rest of are just observers providing commentaries, not much we can do about it, except keeping the facts straight.

Thinks are always changing.. as the recent Prius announcement just feeds into. Soon the HOV Volts will start shipping so the sales number will change again. If GM starts advertising in a reasonable way maybe they will take off. Or maybe they will just have a slow growth process. Prius PHV data will start showing up and that too will impact perception and sales. Rumors abound about potential price drops for the Volt. It will be a interesting year.

I'm with Jeff N, that for people that qualify for the tax credit (and especially with some state credits as well), the price difference between the Prius PHV and Volt is small enough that the "its too expensive" does not really make the PiP v Volt a financial decision. It will be driven by Looks, seating, brand loyalty, etc.. But perception will be the biggest issue, and so I hope we'll see more agressive and more intelligent advertising from GM. If we do, then we know they are serious about the volt.

 

Prius PHV meets the requirements for CVRP so it will qualify for additional $2,500 in California.

With the federal $2,500 tax credit, Prius PHV is as low as $27,000 in California.

 

I don't have time to look this up and verify it, but I'm pretty sure the PiP and Volt will only qualify for $1,500 under the California program. Only BEVs like the LEAF will qualify for the full $2,500.

 

Jeff, you may be right. Volt is said to get $1,500 CVRP. I assume Prius PHV would get the same amount as well.

 

Those who have been downplaying Volt, saying with patience, education, and advertising that the configuration currently available would become a top-seller.

With only 603 sold in January, it's time to accept reality. A second model that's actually competitive must be offered. Waiting for price to drop dramatically from volume increase simply isn't going to happen.

Something proactive must be done. Will it be a significant alteration to Volt itself or will the idea of a plug-in Cruze be brought up again?
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BMW has been working on nav integrated into the control system. This should have great future promise. In the mean time giving a volt driver a hold button and a prius phv driver a ev/hv toggle seems like a good way to keep the operator in control.

These must be people on those other sites you visit

According to the recent forbes editorial, advertising on fox is gm's next step, to stop the anti plug-in bleeding The Leaf also took a hit from the anti plug-in stories. We can expect a spike in sales around the april time frame. Its still not going to be a hot seller, but between already announced fleet sales, hov access, and word of mouth, its not like the volt will get cancelled anytime soon.

Personally IMHO the plug-in cruze is a distraction and shows some poor management on gm's part. The jury is still out on the management team, but at least lutz is out. There should be cost reduction as volume comes up, but no significant changes until the next generation car. Partience grasshopper, the pip isn't even for sale yet in the united states, nor are the c-max or fusion energi.

 

Nah. e-cvt is much older than 1996. You found the PNGV work that came out of the Clinton/Gore sponsored government subsidy of the Detroit companies to make a 100 mpg car. It was in fact the PNGV project that convinced Honda and Toyota to develop hybrids to stay competitive. It is just irony that the Japanese car companies developed market leading products without government subsidy, while the US companies dumped the project after building a concept car each when the subsidies stopped.

If you want a little clearer (but not by any means exhaustive treatment) of e-cvt, read Cal-tech's Wouk work and frustration trying to move Detroit. Suffice to say that Wouk bought a Prius, and thanked Toyota for having the courage and foresight in making his decades of efforts tangible.

 

He was right on the money with 50 MPG.

In 1979, he wrote in the New York Times, “Tests on, and studies of, hybrids have shown that petroleum usage of 80 miles per gallon will be possible for normal daily driving, and 50 miles per gallon when averaged over a year…We should start a crash program to commercialize the hybrid. It would make sense because all aspects of the hybrid have been proved workable. No new technologies need be developed.â€​

Victor Wouk and The Great Hybrid Car Cover-up of 1974 | Hybrid Cars

 

Nice read, about the industry and governement, but....
there is a little problem, the trw hybrid patents of 1971 really were waiting for electronics advancements that happened in the 1990s. Thoughts belong on anouther thread, unless your point is....

The phevs work well with today's technology, but will work even better with electronics and battery advancements. Price will come down.

http://www.mlive.com/opinion/flint/index.ssf/2009/02/victor_wouks_1972_buick_skylar.html

 

Nah. I said:

Wouk did some good work, but his design had little resemblance to the Prius HSD input-split planetary design using two electric motors which GM filed the patent for in 1995 before Toyota.

Wouk's patent describes a parallel hybrid using one electric motor and is very different from the Prius HSD. It is cited by some Honda patents but not by either GM or Toyota in their power-split patents.

Patent US4021677 - Hybrid power system - Google Patents

Sure, there was the early 1970's TRW work but those patents expired long ago. Actually, these GM and Toyota patents are about to start expiring this year (17 years) which is good news because now the basic input-split design can begin showing up in cars from all manufacturers without license restrictions over the next decade.

 

You would have us accept your opinion over Dr. Wouk ?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhaha

<<trying to catch my breath>>
Perhaps you mean the specific HSD design ? That may be true, but it hardly changes the fact that Detroit kept it's head up it's nether regions for 35 years, until they were able to produce an HSD imitation.

 

There is nothing wrong with being wrong, but please its strange for someone to be so loud and so wrong.

You assume that Dr Wouk, disagrees with me, but that is not true. I actually agree with him Hindsight is great after the fact, Wouk knew a lot more in 2000 than he did in the 70s. He knew that electronics were not ready for the TRW patents even in the 70s, so he did a hybrid design for simpler electronics and lead acid battery technology. Wouk was supportive of the modern PHEV.

 

Thanks for the link.

I agree that at least in this patent, the over-riding goals of lowering partial power losses and lessening Nox pollution was expected to come from EGR rather than e-CVT 'gearing.'