hybrid sales

I often hear bout the incentives in Japan, but rarely do people provide actual numbers or citations.

Do you have any actual numbers or citations?

 

It's interesting that after all these years, the Prius is still commanding about 50% of the hybrid market. That's why I don't get too alarmed by Prius bashing, since by the 'days-on-lot' rates, the Prius is not (and really hasn't ever) been sitting there with no buyers. The first several years the Gen-II had a waiting list, which was a remarkably long period. And today, 1 out of every 80 news cars sold is a Prius. When will the competitors match it?

What doesn't get reported with that, is that that was in response to the U.S. PNGV program (Partnership for Next Generation Vehicle). This was a program for the Big-3 Detroit automakers under the Clinton administration, to work on collaborative technologies to allow them to produce a family sedan that could get up to 80 mpg. The government pumped in large sums of money so that the automakers could test new technologies without the usual risks.

Toyota wanted in on this deal too, but was rebuffed, so that's when they started their own program that led to the Prius (and probably got money from their own government but I haven't seen how the numbers compare to what was provided American companies in the PNGV). Detroit meanwhile, lobbied against this research program that could have benefitted them, and one of the first things Bush did when he became president, was to end the PNGV and started the even less-likely-to-succeed FreedomCar program that was aimed at hydrogen fuel-cells. GM reportedly spent a billion dollars on fuel cell research, and Ford spent a bundle as well. Of course, by the end of Bush's term, GM and Chrysler were facing bankruptcy and Ford was shaky. One wonders what would have happened had they spent all that money on making a practical car that would have competed with the Prius from day 1 instead. It should be noted that they did produce actual test vehicles that got over 70 mpg.

Oh yeah, GM was also crushing fully functional EV-1's during this time period. But if they made a good fuel-efficient vehicle today, I'd be willing to forgive and forget. Don't see it happening yet though. Eco-Cruze isn't bad, but it's not a Prius-killer.

 

You mean the less than 5kVA that the L2 charger draws? You'd have to be runnning some pretty chicken$h1p wiring in order to over load even a 30amp circuit.

 

...OK good info but I still think the large "push" incentives are more political here than Japan/China where large incentives seem to go to go out equally to many.

Your reply dovetails into another thought I have been thinking. Why are we getting so many new EV's on the road lately? The answer I tentatively come up with, it is partially due to push from Japan car makers. But after the Tsunami and loss of nuke power plants in Japan, is Japan's EV premise going to lose validity? If so, the US market becomes more important to the eventual success.

 

Japan has a very interesting corporate/government/political culture.

Although Japan's economic development is primarily the product of private entrepreneurship, the government has directly contributed to the nation's prosperity. Its actions have helped initiate new industries, cushion the effects of economic depression, create a sound economic infrastructure, and protect the living standards of the citizenry. Indeed, so pervasive has government influence in the economy seemed that many foreign observers have popularized the term "Japan Inc.

Government-business relations in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In amakudari, senior civil servants retire to join organisations linked with or under the jurisdiction of their ministries or agencies when they reach mandatory retirement age, usually between 50 and 60 in the public service. The former officials may collude with their former colleagues to help their new employers secure government contracts, avoid regulatory inspections and generally secure preferential treatment from the bureaucracy.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakudari"]Amakudari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


:focus:

 

...yes Japan different, I agree, have done some work there. Put another way, I am not aware of any country quite as adversarial as USA. Just our nature. I was just trying to nominate adversarial politics as one possible EV/PHV hurdle here, but I am losing the battle.

 

as i said before, what is keeping the hybrid sales RIGHT NOW, is thai floods that damanged facilities of japanese automakers.

For Camry, alone, Toyota said they targeted 50k sales a year of hybrid model, once availability is up.

Honda hybrids are lacking in supply... CTh too... HH too... etc, etc.

 

The negative Priud video above is just a waste. I believe there is a lot of envy towards the Prius. It is obviously a successful car, but it was not developed in the US, nor is it mfrd here, and there's just now something on the horizon that will be something like, the C-Max, I guess like it.

Bottom line, Prius is a consistent, solid, in the top 20 selling of all cars and trucks in the US. The envious ones hate that. If the exact car was made by Ford, or .... GM, the haters would be all cool with it. But, it's not.

 

There seems to be something wrong in the world of hybrid sales. Again, Prius outsells all other hybrid models combined. IMO, this is not normal folks. It seems to be a jacked up car segment.

The numbers are terrible - 600 Fusion hybrids sold for January..what? 400 civic hybrids? No wonder hybrids have 2 or 3% total market share. How do you think things could be improved? I have my idea.

 

There seems to be something wrong in the world of hybrid sales. Again, Prius outsells all other hybrid models combined. IMO, this is not normal folks. It seems to be a jacked up car segment.

The numbers are terrible - 600 Fusion hybrids sold for January..what? 400 civic hybrids? No wonder hybrids have 2 or 3% total market share. How do you think things could be improved? I have my idea.

 

Toyota Prius V Outsells Chevrolet Volt

"Last year, Toyota Prius V sales totaled 8,399, while Chevrolet Volt sales totaled 7,671"
"Combined sales of the Prius and Prius V in January totaled 11,555. Volt sales in January were 603."

 

We think hybrid sales, we think Prius. Maybe a little also for the insight ... maybe a little volt ... fusion ... Caddy ... escape ... hyhi ... and of course Lexus. Oh ... and now Hyundai et al.

Any stat's on the "Big Boys" ??
Our company uses Arrowhead Water - and their delivery trucks are hybrid. so are some of the FedEx trucks. Just yesterday I was walking across the traffic circle in the historic zone, city of Orange. Whipped out my camera phone just in time to catch this:



All that to say - I can't for the life of me find stat's on hybrid trucks ... what kind of sales are they having. There are tons here in So Cal ... but I've nary seen a single one in the boonies of Montana. Are sales to far below 1% to even register?

I DO get jazzed when I see 'em ... or better yet - when I don't hear them ... because they don't sit there idling - blum blum blum blum blum blum blum blum blum blum blum blum - the way regular trucks do, when they're being off-loaded. Yes, that always bugs me when I see / hear that scenario

.

 

Hey folks,
what are you thoughts about the prius vs. Some of these new gas engine only cars that are coming out on to the market that are pushing up close to 40 mpg highway. Hyundai veloster, elantra, sonata, the new subaru (all wheel drive all the time) impreza, chevys, fords, other toyota models, etc?

 

^^ People unused to arithmetic underestimate the poor city mpg effect these cars have on the bottom line of fuel use.

Example:if I drive 50:50 city:highway miles in a car that gets 40 mpg highway and 20 mpg city, The straight 20 mpg car will consume 33% more fuel, not 50% as many people would guess.

 

none of them manage to average more than 32mpg...

 

Yep. One needs to look at the combined and city mileage. Check them out at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbsSelect. You'll see they're in the low 30s or high 20s for combined mileage vs. the 50 mpg combined of the Prius liftback and c.

GM really liked pushing that they had a leading # of cars that got over 30 mpg highway w/a lot of badge engineered twins and later many were killed (http://www.autospies.com/news/20-GM...One-Problem-12-Are-Saturns-or-Pontiacs-44502/).

Let's take a look at the '12 Cruze Eco (that costs more than the base trims). What EPA estimates does it get w/an automatic? 26 city/37 highway/30 combined. What if you get a base Cruze non-Eco w/1.8L engine and automatic? 22 city/35 highway/27 combined. What's '12 Prius' rating? 51 city/48 highway/50 combined. 50 mpg combined is ~85% better than 27 mpg and ~66% better than 30 mpg.

Not everyone lives and works on or near a highway. Not everyone w/a highway commute gets to go highway speeds. Many folks have commutes on highways and it's a virtual parking lot before, during and after the highway portion, w/tons of idling and stop and go. You won't get anywhere near EPA highway estimates w/that sort of commute.