Canceling my PiP order.

You should change your profile car Congratulations and have fun with your new volt. Do I have it right that you are driving 102 miles a day 5 days a week just for work? I'd be upset if I only got 15mpg or if I had that commute.

 

has California even received approval for the green sticker program yet? I called CARB last week about the PHEV possibilities for a Prius equiped with an Enginer, Hymotion or PICC kit and I was told the program has not yet been approved (and never will for a Plug-in kit version).

 

I agree with a previous poster. If you buy a PHV for HOV access, that in and of itself does not make you a hypocrite, provided that the purchaser is being honest with themselves and others about why it is that they're choosing that car.
I'm not a resident of an area that requires a HOV lane, and while I think that allowing certain "approved" single-occupant vehicles in these lanes is rather “interesting”---especially when said drivers would have to be of above average means to afford such a vehicle with or without the four to five-figure government kickback, I really don't have a dog in this fight.
Even if some of my very average income is supplementing this activity. Life isn't fair sometimes, and there might even be some good that comes from people who ordinarily not buy a PHV, deciding to do so for reasons that aren't pleasing to other folks.

Like I said....interesting.

 

Hey, I resemble that remark. In all seriousness, while I do look forward to using the extra EV capacity, I won't lose sleep if I don't plug it in sometimes... getting HOV access in CA for me is worth about 1 hour each day. And that is my #1 motivation for getting the PIP... otherwise, there's absolutely nothing wrong with my '06 Prius...

 

HOV lane is what made me pull the trigger. Otherwise, I might be looking at things like a Diesel Jetta to get the MPG. Environment is a good bonus, but if you really get down to it for me it comes down to the $$ I will save on gas and the time I will save in the carpool lane.

 

If the HOV lane is the motive, Honda Civic NGV is the cheapest option. Not sure about the total cost of ownership.

 

The NGV won't run on anything BUT NG.
Not a very convenient issue for most.

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/.../overview/0609_how-to-jump-start-a-car_ov.htm

Honda has a device you install in your garage "The Phil" which will take your standard home gas line and compress it, filling your car.

"When Honda started retail GX sales in California, it also began offering a home refueling device called Phill, made by a marketing partner in Canada. The device can refuel a vehicle overnight when connected to a gas line from a home served by natural gas. The Civic line was redesigned for 2006, and a GX model was again offered in California. With the 2007 model year, Honda expanded consumer sales to New York state dealerships and is looking at other markets. "

Sounds kind of the same as an EVSE for filling your BEV to me

 

NOW DO THE RESEARCH ON HOW MUCH IT IS TO INSTALL.

I can plug the PHEV into my existing garage wall plug. Free.

 

Yea, NGV is more of a hassle than plugging it into a regular plug. You'll also have to put up with the engine running at the stop light. There is no regen brake, etc.

 

And if you ever want to go longer than your range from home and back, you need to know where the limited CNG fueling stations are. And also hope they're not closed or broken when you get there. It's happened, and then you're really screwed since AAA doesn't have emergency CNG tanks on the tow trucks. Heck they at least can fast charge a Leaf, right?

I have direct experience with this all as I have driven a CNG car recently. Great idea, not ready for prime time. That's why I'm sticking with the hybrids -- the convenience of the regular fuel ICE is ideal.

 

I'm just saying there have been alternatives to gasoline for a long while now, and they don't seem to catch on. CNG is a whole lot less complex and easier than the mythical "hydrogen", and look how that has flopped... However, if we have another oil crisis/embargo, those CNG vehicles will be like gold, same as pure EVs.

and the refueling overnight? same as a real BEV, on 120V, the Leaf can take 18-20 hours on 120V if its totally empty. on L2 @ 240, should be 6-8 hours at the most. We need to get off gasoline, that's what the CNG and Pure EVs are for.

I should also add there is a strong relationship between Natural Gas and Electricity in the US, all of the NG pipelines operator on compressor stations, run by, yep, electricity. Also, a lot of the cleaner generation of electricity is done with, you guessed it, Natural Gas plants. So they co-exist together very well.

 

Can you explain why a pure EV would be any better than something like the volt?

 

1 word answer: no place to put gasoline in a Leaf

It depends on what your goals are, if you want to be totally off gasoline, only a CNG or Pure EV will do that, downside is limited range, somewhat long refueling time, and limited availbility (CNG).
on the Plus side, you will not have to worry about being able to get to work on the next oil embargo.

Yes, the Volt is a fine choice, it just sometimes requires gasoline...
On the down side, I cannot fit in one

 

"I should also add there is a strong relationship between Natural Gas and Electricity in the US, all of the NG pipelines operator on compressor stations, run by, yep, electricity. Also, a lot of the cleaner generation of electricity is done with, you guessed it, Natural Gas plants. So they co-exist together very well.[/QUOTE]"

Mitch,
Check out some natural gas websites for some further research.
"Turbine compressors gain their energy by using up a small proportion of the natural gas that they compress. The turbine itself serves to operate a centrifugal compressor, which contains a type of fan that compresses and pumps the natural gas through the pipeline. Some compressor stations are operated by using an electric motor to turn the same type of centrifugal compressor. This type of compression does not require the use of any of the natural gas from the pipe, however it does require a reliable source of electricity nearby. Reciprocating natural gas engines are also used to power some compressor stations. These engines resemble a very large automobile engine, and are powered by natural gas from the pipeline. The combustion of the natural gas powers pistons on the outside of the engine, which serves to compress the natural gas."
Source: http://www.naturalgas.org/naturalgas/transport.asp

 

EV beats PiP/Volt/et al:

more EV range for a given weight
more EV efficiency for a given range (no ICE/tranny weight)
less chance of burning gas (if getting off gas is a goal)
less maintenance
should have more useable space in a given form factor (no ICE)

of course they also have downsides...

 

I have a friend who spent his career in the natural gas business, early on as an engineer in the storage fields and rising to CEO of a Fortune 500 company. He told me that there is no way he would have a 3600 psi compressor in his home. I was seriously considering the Honda Civic CNG, but without a local fuel station, and not wanting the risk and expense of "The Phil" it wasn't a viable option. I too have had considerable experience driving and fueling both dual-fuel and dedicated CNG vehicles, beginning in 1971 with a Lincoln Continental. What is needed is a better infrastructure, IMHO.

 

I was only addressing the oil embargo. Even if oil is $100 per gallon you could still drive the Volt for 37 miles. So it seems to me the only time a leaf would be better is if you needed to drive between 37 and 73 miles. Though I suppose if you needed to drive 1000 then the leaf could do it, though I certainly would not want to wait around to charge.

The fact is if we had a ton of PiP, Volt, Leaf etc.. then the next oil embargo would just be a laugh. Seriously it would have no effect at all on us if we had such a fleet. But obviously we don't.

 

I disagree. We all have different reasons for going with a hybrid. If some people want one to take advantage of the HOV lane then that is perfectly fine. And kudos to the HOV only purchaser and the gov't agencies that make that happen, because we all benefit.

Now, if I were a card carrying Earth First radical and only bought to get into the HOV lane, then I can see where the hypocrite moniker would apply.
:focus: