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Four-tenths of a mile

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by pjay, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. pjay

    pjay New Member

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    That's the distance from my parking space to the supermarket's parking lot.

    It takes about seven minutes to walk it, which is what I usually do, pushing a "granny cart" to lug the groceries back home in.

    But I have to admit, there have been some nights when the weather has been freezing or inclement that I have driven it, in my previous CR-Vs (first an '03, most recently an '06). Now I have the Prius.

    What do you folks think about driving the Prius for that short a distance? Will the ICE even come on? I do briefly have to go on a two-lane road before entering the supermarket's parking lot, but I could easily keep the speed for the whole trip to 20 mph max.

    If the ICE does come on, do I risk having water accumulate in the exhaust system, as in the CR-V and other nonhybrid vehicles, because it won't be able to be boiled off the way it would have if I had driven the car for at least six miles? Or is the Prius very well suited for such short trips?

    I don't even care about what such a short trip would do to my mileage for a given tank. I'm just concerned with ultimately doing damage to the exhaust and/or engine by possibly not giving the car enough time to warm up.

    Just wondering if having a hybrid is sort of like having a hall pass for taking trips that are no-nos in nonhybrid vehicles.

    Thanks for your thoughts!
     
  2. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Yes the ICE will start up as part of it's normal operating routine and even in EV mode if the ambient temperature is below 63f (IIRC).
     
  3. pjay

    pjay New Member

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    Thanks, Doug. Is it still a good idea to avoid this short a trip, even in a hybrid?
     
  4. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I wouldn't worry about it. The engine was designed to do a quick warmup cycle. Modern exhaust systems are covered by the emissions warranty and are designed to last many years unlike the old days of cheap, thin, rust prone materials.
     
  5. LTZR1

    LTZR1 Member

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    Sorry ! No "hall" pass. the ICE will start, but be far from warm in .4 of a mile. This kind of short trip is likely the absolue worst kind
    use of a car. The Prius ICE is designed to warm up quickly, but
    not in this kind of short distance.

    More than your exhaust, your engne oil will suffer from condensation, fuel dilution and acid formation unless you take the car on a long run to heat up the engine to full operating temperature and oil and burn them off on a regular basis/ This is severe use and would require more frequent oil changes than the 10K Toyota recommends.

    When it's cold and inclement weather, you have to do what you have to do. Just be aware of the severe service you're putting the vehicle
    through and guide your maintenance and oil change procedures accordingly/
     
  6. yeldogt

    yeldogt Active Member

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    It's a car ....

    The widespread use of Stainless Steel in exhausts systems has eliminated the rust problems once associated with condensation ....same goes for computer controlled injection systems and any oil dilution.


    A few engines over the years have been more prone to upper engine condensation but proper basic maintenance takes care of this ......especially if the car gets a full warm up a couple times a month.

    How many miles do you drive in a year?

    If it is over 7k ...I would not give your short trips a second thought.
     
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  7. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    There's some hacks you can do to drive this distance in all electric but would it be worth it to you? An Enginer PHEV kit for less than $3500 and a coolant temperature hack.
    You get in the vehicle, turn on the coolant temp hack switch, power up the Prius. The ICE will not come on since it thinks the engine is fully warmed up. You can drive in EV mode up to 25mph or in normal mode up to 45mph as long as you don't go pass the half way point on the HSI bar. Be warned that if the ICE does come on, you have to turn off the coolant temp hack immediately. You can drive in EV mode until the PHEV battery runs out, usually in 10-20 miles.
    I drove the distance as you all the time b/c there's a Fresh&Easy right down the street from me. I don't have the temp hack. The whole trip returned 115mpg including the warm up cycle.
     
  8. macman408

    macman408 Electron Guidance Counselor

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    If that short trip was all you ever drove, it might be bad. Or if you never walked when you could. But given that it's an occasional thing, I wouldn't worry about it. Making that trip won't be "good", but having to do so shouldn't keep you up at night either.
     
  9. pjay

    pjay New Member

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    @Doug: Thanks very much!

    @LTZR1: Thanks very much for the background info! No hall pass for me! :)

    @yeldogt: I drive about 6,000 to 8,000 miles a year. Most of my trips are at highway speeds for 65 miles each way. Thanks for your perspective on modern cars.

    @cproaudio: Thanks! Nice to know you have a similar short drive to mine. That hack is way too involved for me, though. I don't make this trip (in the car) often enough to make the hack worthwhile. Thanks, though! Glad it works for you. 115 mpg is amazing!

    @macman408: Thanks for the thought! Yeah, it's only rarely that I would be tempted to use the car for the grocery run.
     
  10. yeldogt

    yeldogt Active Member

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    I have an office at my house - my personal cars do short trips all the time .......everything is less than a mile away. I normally turn them into company cars after 4 or 5 years and then they get a lot of miles .......never any issues.

    My 02 Jaguar has spent its whole life doing this - now just over 50k .... never an issue ....... but it does get a regular trip a few times a month that is over an hour in length ..... at 6-8k you will have no issues.
     
  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I wouldn't worry about the hall pass or any "damage" done to your vehicle from even routine < 1 mile trips.

    First...the hall pass. Anybody that sneers at you about making the trip during inclimate WX should spend a winter up in Westchester and be reminded that you're environmentally and/or health conscious enough to make the trip using bi-ped transportation when the situation allows. I think that I would cut myself a break if I were in your shoes.

    OK...now the car. How old are you? How long are you going to be keeping your G3? If you're worried about "severe" service....don't. I've seen military vehicles with much more dubious lineage than your Toyota last for years making nothing more than infrequent very short trips (on base.) It's just not that big an issue post 1990 unless you want your car to last for 25 years or so....and even then it's not that big a deal if you double down on your oil changes, pay attention to time versus mileage in your maintenance schedule, and run the car for the semi-occasional longer drive. As stated above…the G3 is a fairly well engineered car. You’re probably going to see a lot more damage from road salt and things like acid rain, road FOD, and killer grocery carts than you’ll ever cause to the car from your “abusive” driving habits.

    You've probably already put more effort into worrying about the problem than it will ever deserve. The car will be fine, especially if you're worried about its care enough to ask questions like this.

    Best of luck to you!
     
  12. Teakwood

    Teakwood Member

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    My mail box is a half-mile uphill from my house. I use my Prius to pick up the mail.
    It ain't no big deal.

    It's a car - drive it as you need!
     
  13. pjay

    pjay New Member

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    Ah, interesting that you have been doing this for years with cars with no issue! Thanks for letting me know you don't think I will have any problem.
     
  14. pjay

    pjay New Member

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    Thanks much, ETC(SS)! I appreciate your kind words. Nice to know you've seen a lot of military vehicles used in the same fashion without problem. True, killer grocery carts and road salt are nasty foes! In a typical winter (with much more snow than we have had this winter), I like to run whatever vehicle I'm driving through a car wash once every two weeks or so to get the undercarriage washed. But because there has been only about six inches of snow this winter, we haven't had any salt on the roads. Can't expect that to be the case every winter, though, unfortunately.

    I'm in my 40s, and I have no idea how long I expect to keep the car, but as you note, I definitely don't want to wear it out prematurely if I can help it!

    Thanks for the luck wishes! :)
     
  15. pjay

    pjay New Member

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    Cool that you use the Prius that way, Teakwood! Thanks for the reply!
     
  16. pjay

    pjay New Member

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    Here's another question, though it's not quite related to a short trip.

    I had to circle a five-story parking garage for half an hour last night while looking for a space. During this time, my speed didn't exceed 11 mph, I rarely had to brake much, and I think the ICE was off. I was in Normal mode, and I noticed by looking at the Energy Monitor that the hybrid battery charge was down to two pips.

    The ICE will come on when the car is in Ready to prevent the hybrid battery from being totally discharged, won't it? If so, does that happen when the hybrid battery indicator gets to one pip, or does it happen even later than that? This was the first time I had driven the Prius for an extended period at a speed no higher than 11 mph.

    Everything was fine when I got back into the car a couple of hours later. No issues at all.
     
  17. macman408

    macman408 Electron Guidance Counselor

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    Yes, the ICE will come on as needed when the Ready light is on, as long as you're not in Neutral. It happens at 2 pips. It doesn't charge much, though - it's still at two when it's finished, IIRC.
     
  18. pjay

    pjay New Member

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    Ah, OK, thanks, macman408. Good to know! I was a little worried about the hybrid battery's charge, but to be honest, I was more worried about finding a parking space before an 8 p.m. show started! (I made it.)